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lb:cod:daeva.clanbook [2025-10-18 12:55:57] – The fabled re-write. ninjasrlb:cod:daeva.clanbook [2025-10-20 14:42:29] (current) – [Trivilinks] ninjasr
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 Of course, besides that, there are a few other problems: it's pretty (painfully) obvious that the authors were injecting their own sexual fantasies into the story. There's one in particular that'll haunt me to the end of my days.\\ Of course, besides that, there are a few other problems: it's pretty (painfully) obvious that the authors were injecting their own sexual fantasies into the story. There's one in particular that'll haunt me to the end of my days.\\
-They also don't know how to write women. Most of the women who talk are lesbians/bisexual or hedonistic. This is especially ironic considering there's an in-character note later in the book that seems to call out male authors who write women as strippers on the one hand and romance-starved starry-eyed girls on the other. Both of the authors are male.((:fn:>There's a point to be made that one of them now goes by ‘Rose’ instead of ‘Russel’ and while I couldn't find //any// information related to that at all, I think it's safe to say that this author is transgender. Which actually reflects //even worse// on the book and the author. Because, y'know, transgender Males-to-Females are stereotyped as weird sexual deviants.)) And it's pretty obvious they subscribe to the ideology of [[lb:socjus]], though it thankfully isn't //that// big in here. It's still the case though that whenever two women interact (whether vampire or mortal) they are either doing something sexual or there is some sexual tension. This //also// applies to the males, by the way, just that it's more subtle.\\+They also don't know how to write women. Most of the women who talk are lesbians/bisexual or hedonistic. This is especially ironic considering there's an in-character note later in the book that seems to call out male authors who write women as strippers on the one hand and romance-starved starry-eyed girls on the other. Both of the authors are male.((:fn:>There's a point to be made that one of them now goes by ‘Rose’ instead of ‘Russel’ and while I couldn't find //any// information related to that at all, I think it's safe to say that this author is transgender. Which actually reflects //even worse// on the book and the author. Because, y'know, transgender Males-to-Females are stereotyped as weird sexual deviants.))((:fn:>I'm also suspecting that one of the authors is gay or bisexual, with me leaning towards the transgender one being so. I think this because there are too many instances of men ‘being gay’ to state it bluntly. Kevin feels good being checked out in the gay bar. There's are a few descriptions of penises and erections. The Collector kisses his male ghoul. And this even matches the ‘Adrian’ storyline a bit.)) And it's pretty obvious they subscribe to the ideology of [[lb:socjus]], though it thankfully isn't //that// big in here. It's still the case though that whenever two women interact (whether vampire or mortal) they are either doing something sexual or there is some sexual tension. This //also// applies to the males, by the way, just that it's more subtle.\\
 So, basically, this follows the standard depiction of sexy vampires as ‘punk-ish’ and ‘whore-ish’. So, basically, this follows the standard depiction of sexy vampires as ‘punk-ish’ and ‘whore-ish’.
  
 Now onto more positive stuff. The fluff part of the book is presented as a series of papers that are collected by an old vampire. I started calling him the ‘Collector’ while I was reading and, as it turns out, that's what the authors call him as well. He had gone missing at some point (not revealed where/why until the end) and it's clear that somebody (or multiple somebodies) are going thru the papers after the fact. I'm guessing there are at least three people. We know this because they add their own notes.\\ Now onto more positive stuff. The fluff part of the book is presented as a series of papers that are collected by an old vampire. I started calling him the ‘Collector’ while I was reading and, as it turns out, that's what the authors call him as well. He had gone missing at some point (not revealed where/why until the end) and it's clear that somebody (or multiple somebodies) are going thru the papers after the fact. I'm guessing there are at least three people. We know this because they add their own notes.\\
-I was gonna level a criticism here related to those notes...but then I realized that it actually //is// possible to figure out who it is. If you don't want it spoiled, I'll have those answers in the footnotes (spoiled). It just required some thinking on my part.\\+I was gonna level a criticism here related to those notes...but then I realized that it actually //is// possible to figure out who it is. If you don't want it spoiled, I'll have those answers in the footnotes (spoilered). It just required some thinking on my part.\\
 Some of them are more obvious than others.((:fn:>The notes come in two forms: those written in the margins and those written on sticky notes.))((:fn:>The notes in the margins are probably written by the Collector and <wrap spoiler>his ‘daughter’: Ayesha</wrap>. I say this because it makes the most sense in-universe (and to me), though I could be wrong.))((:fn:>The sticky notes come in four different forms: yellow, green, red-ish and blue. The red-ish ones are almost certainly <wrap spoiler>written by Nic</wrap>; the yellow ones are written by the Collector; the blue ones are <wrap spoiler>written by Cat</wrap>; I wasn't sure who wrote the green ones, but now I think it was <wrap spoiler>the ghoul who we see at the end</wrap>.))\\ Some of them are more obvious than others.((:fn:>The notes come in two forms: those written in the margins and those written on sticky notes.))((:fn:>The notes in the margins are probably written by the Collector and <wrap spoiler>his ‘daughter’: Ayesha</wrap>. I say this because it makes the most sense in-universe (and to me), though I could be wrong.))((:fn:>The sticky notes come in four different forms: yellow, green, red-ish and blue. The red-ish ones are almost certainly <wrap spoiler>written by Nic</wrap>; the yellow ones are written by the Collector; the blue ones are <wrap spoiler>written by Cat</wrap>; I wasn't sure who wrote the green ones, but now I think it was <wrap spoiler>the ghoul who we see at the end</wrap>.))\\
 But, basically, it's a series of papers with notes. Not all written by the same in-universe author, but all broadly related to the Daeva: their history, culture, some adventures, etc. But, basically, it's a series of papers with notes. Not all written by the same in-universe author, but all broadly related to the Daeva: their history, culture, some adventures, etc.
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 The book is a bit disorienting at first, but you get used to it by the time you reach the end. The book is a bit disorienting at first, but you get used to it by the time you reach the end.
  
-Having gotten to the mechanics part of the book (which is hilariously short compared to the rest)...yeah, I think what's there is solid.((:fn:>One that I may have a slight issue with is ‘Night Life’ because it's a bit like the Blush of Life, but lasts a whole night. There are supposed downsides, but they aren't explicitly stated mechanically. I just wouldn't, as a Storyteller.))((:fn:>This part also states that Majesty is so inherent to the Daeva that it's used unconsciously, which I guess makes some sense. Though I don't really buy it.)) However, just like with the fluff, there is an uncomfortable amount of sex-talk in that section. As in, basically every merit has some mention of sex. However, I'm also now seeing how some of those mechanics were integrated into the fluff in the first half of the book (seeing what it might look like in practice) which elevates the fluff slightly.+Having gotten to the mechanics part of the book (which is hilariously short compared to the rest)...yeah, I think what's there is solid.((:fn:>One that I may have a slight issue with is ‘Night Life’ because it's a bit like the Blush of Life, but lasts a whole night. There are supposed downsides, but they aren't explicitly stated mechanically. I just wouldn't, as a Storyteller.))((:fn:>This part also states that Majesty is so inherent to the Daeva that it's used unconsciously, which I guess makes some sense. Though I don't really buy it.)) However, just like with the fluff, there is an uncomfortable amount of sex-talk in that section. As in, basically every merit has some mention of sex. However, I'm also now seeing how some of those mechanics were integrated into the fluff in the first half of the book (seeing what it might look like in practice) which elevates the fluff slightly.\\ 
 +But! Now that I'm reading the example characters...the weird sex stuff appears in full force again. Not only is the first example character a bisexual rich party girl (who did such sex stuff prior to the Embrace), but there's a lot of incest stuff here too: implied and stated. The character's brother was Embraced first (as Ventrue) and he took her along to Kindred parties as his sister and then his ‘date’. When she got jealous of him, she gets embraced by a female Daeva. Then it's stated that her sire views her as the <q>“Perfect daughter and lover.”</q> And then the book has the gall to suggest that her and her brother are <q>“bad at being siblings, but they might become the very best of... friends.”</q> What the Hell.\\ 
 +This example character is actually indicative of what the writers did as a whole: they didn't have to write in the sex stuff or the incest subtext, but they //chose to anyway//.
  
 I'd say that the entire book is about 50/50 in quality: there is //a lot// of bad, but the few good and the way it's presented...possibly redeems it? I would prefer that the content of the book be majorly re-written, is how I'd put it. The artwork is high quality too, though I'll admit that I don't like it that much. I like the art of the comic tracts and the cover the most...everything else I don't' really //like//...but that's down to my personal taste, rather than a commentary on the quality.\\ I'd say that the entire book is about 50/50 in quality: there is //a lot// of bad, but the few good and the way it's presented...possibly redeems it? I would prefer that the content of the book be majorly re-written, is how I'd put it. The artwork is high quality too, though I'll admit that I don't like it that much. I like the art of the comic tracts and the cover the most...everything else I don't' really //like//...but that's down to my personal taste, rather than a commentary on the quality.\\
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 Some of those are fairly obvious and interpreted 100% thru the sex thing. 1, 2 and 3 are all hanging out in those locations because they wanna have sex. That is Kevin's interpretation. Mine is just that these are different hunting grounds and we can’t be sure if the vampires have sex. I'll go thru the interesting ones.\\ Some of those are fairly obvious and interpreted 100% thru the sex thing. 1, 2 and 3 are all hanging out in those locations because they wanna have sex. That is Kevin's interpretation. Mine is just that these are different hunting grounds and we can’t be sure if the vampires have sex. I'll go thru the interesting ones.\\
 The nerd girl in the game lounge has basically positioned herself as the Queen Bee. All the guys in that center look to her as a sort-of goddess. Kevin doesn't even observe her doing anything explicitly sexual, so she might just enjoy the attention.\\ The nerd girl in the game lounge has basically positioned herself as the Queen Bee. All the guys in that center look to her as a sort-of goddess. Kevin doesn't even observe her doing anything explicitly sexual, so she might just enjoy the attention.\\
-The old vampire at the senior center is one of the more uncomfortable ones in how it's described, because Kevin basically goes “old people have sex too” and then speculates about how this old vampire must spend a lot of time just having sex with old ladies. And it's especially uncomfortable because this old vampire is literally just judging spaghetti. No, I'm not joking. He's observing this vampire at a spaghetti-off and going <q>“What a sick perv, I bet he has sex with all the grannies!”</q> which is just pure unhinged behavior. I can also tell that the authors don't think this is weird in the slightest.\\+The old vampire at the senior center is one of the more uncomfortable ones in how it's described, because Kevin basically goes <q>“old people have sex too”</q> and then speculates about how this old vampire must spend a lot of time just having sex with old ladies. And it's especially uncomfortable because this old vampire is literally just judging spaghetti. No, I'm not joking. He's observing this vampire at a spaghetti-off and going <q>“What a sick perv, I bet he has sex with all the grannies!”</q> which is just pure unhinged behavior. I can also tell that the authors don't think this is weird in the slightest.\\
 The waitress at the American Diner confused Kevin at first, because she didn't give any customers her number. How can she have casual sex without giving people her number! After hours, he finds out that she's making out with the cook, who looks pale. So a monogamous vampire, basically. Except that she probably doesn't like the cook that much if he's pale. Kevin also implies sex must happen because of course.\\ The waitress at the American Diner confused Kevin at first, because she didn't give any customers her number. How can she have casual sex without giving people her number! After hours, he finds out that she's making out with the cook, who looks pale. So a monogamous vampire, basically. Except that she probably doesn't like the cook that much if he's pale. Kevin also implies sex must happen because of course.\\
 NARCANON is the one that is strangest and was what made me assume the book would mostly be stuff like it. The vampire is the organizer/psychologist in the group and she appears to have used Majesty for the express purpose of helping the guys in the group get over their addictions. What ruins it is that Kevin (and the writer) seems to implicitly assume she bangs these guys after the meetings, but outside of hugs and touching-but-not-actually and staring into eyes...she doesn't do anything. I have no doubt she //sucks// but doubt that she //fucks//.\\ NARCANON is the one that is strangest and was what made me assume the book would mostly be stuff like it. The vampire is the organizer/psychologist in the group and she appears to have used Majesty for the express purpose of helping the guys in the group get over their addictions. What ruins it is that Kevin (and the writer) seems to implicitly assume she bangs these guys after the meetings, but outside of hugs and touching-but-not-actually and staring into eyes...she doesn't do anything. I have no doubt she //sucks// but doubt that she //fucks//.\\
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 A lot of these also involve Kevin describing a ‘pull’ towards the vampires, which is definitely Majesty at work. Though with how unhinged Kevin is – and this is definitely unintentional on the part of the writers – I actually think Kevin is lying and he's just a vampire sex junkie who needs his next fix. A lot of these also involve Kevin describing a ‘pull’ towards the vampires, which is definitely Majesty at work. Though with how unhinged Kevin is – and this is definitely unintentional on the part of the writers – I actually think Kevin is lying and he's just a vampire sex junkie who needs his next fix.
  
-After this, Kevin spends some time explaining vampire traits. There are the standard ones like “doesn't breath unconsciously” but one that caught my attention was the <q>“one long night”</q>.\\+After this, Kevin spends some time explaining vampire traits. There are the standard ones like <q>“doesn't breath unconsciously”</q> but one that caught my attention was the <q>“one long night”</q>.\\
 Basically, according to Kevin, vampires enter an unconscious sleep during the day which means they never see the day at all. The lack of a natural ‘pause’ in this time period results in their internal clocks breaking and means that they perceive time differently. Because they never see the day, they experience <q>“one long night”</q>. Consequently, vampires have trouble telling what day it is or how much time has passed between events. //Relatable//. Mad even tells Kevin that she breaks up the day by when she last had a shower. So her ‘day’ starts and ends with a shower.\\ Basically, according to Kevin, vampires enter an unconscious sleep during the day which means they never see the day at all. The lack of a natural ‘pause’ in this time period results in their internal clocks breaking and means that they perceive time differently. Because they never see the day, they experience <q>“one long night”</q>. Consequently, vampires have trouble telling what day it is or how much time has passed between events. //Relatable//. Mad even tells Kevin that she breaks up the day by when she last had a shower. So her ‘day’ starts and ends with a shower.\\
 I thought this was really interesting worldbuilding and actually gives us an insight into what it's like to be a vampire.\\ I thought this was really interesting worldbuilding and actually gives us an insight into what it's like to be a vampire.\\
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 So vampires //do// have a natural pause in their schedule which helps them break up the day. So vampires //do// have a natural pause in their schedule which helps them break up the day.
  
-In case you're wondering, the book is filled with these kinds of really weird inconsistencies and worldbuilding hiccups. You can see exactly what the writers intended to do...but also see how they contradict themselves. And it isn't always inconsistent with the rest of //Requiem//’s lore (as I understand it), but with //their own writing//.+In case you're wondering, the book is filled with these kinds of really weird inconsistencies and worldbuilding hiccups. You can see exactly what the writers intended to do...but also see how they contradict themselves. And it isn't just inconsistent with the rest of //Requiem//’s lore (as I understand it), but with //their own writing//.
  
 Now I'll move onto that vampire seductress: Madael North (or Mad). I think the writers intended for her to be this kind of super seductress...but I can’t actually be sure. This is because she's one of the weirder characters in the book.\\ Now I'll move onto that vampire seductress: Madael North (or Mad). I think the writers intended for her to be this kind of super seductress...but I can’t actually be sure. This is because she's one of the weirder characters in the book.\\
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 Meanwhile, let's look at Mad: she points out (several times) that Kevin has lied to his girlfriend; she gives him a very unusual excuse for why she needs //him// to drive her home;((:fn:>The context here is that Mad is at a supermarket. She tells Kevin that her car is broken down and points at it. It's parked in a spot in the parking area of the supermarket. A normal person would ask //how// it broke down.))((:fn:>It gets more suspicious later because Mad lives //very// far from that supermarket. She had to navigate for Kevin and it didn't seem trivial.)) she even tells him that there was an ex-boyfriend at her place.\\ Meanwhile, let's look at Mad: she points out (several times) that Kevin has lied to his girlfriend; she gives him a very unusual excuse for why she needs //him// to drive her home;((:fn:>The context here is that Mad is at a supermarket. She tells Kevin that her car is broken down and points at it. It's parked in a spot in the parking area of the supermarket. A normal person would ask //how// it broke down.))((:fn:>It gets more suspicious later because Mad lives //very// far from that supermarket. She had to navigate for Kevin and it didn't seem trivial.)) she even tells him that there was an ex-boyfriend at her place.\\
 I dunno if I'm just a weird guy, but the signals she gives off don't mesh well with <q>“I want to fuck you”</q>. I think even if she //were// using Majesty (consciously or not), Kevin still wouldn't have been compelled to do the things he does for no particular reason. Kevin is just an asshole, really.\\ I dunno if I'm just a weird guy, but the signals she gives off don't mesh well with <q>“I want to fuck you”</q>. I think even if she //were// using Majesty (consciously or not), Kevin still wouldn't have been compelled to do the things he does for no particular reason. Kevin is just an asshole, really.\\
- In fact, the way it's written suggests that she didn't even intend to seduce him. I now 100% believe that her car was //actually// broken down and she really did need a ride home. The first time, I think, that she was like “okay, I want him” was when she challenged him to guess her secret and, if he guesses right, she'll give him a kiss. He guesses that she's a vampire, which surprises her and makes her very happy. So this is more of an accidental reverse-seduction. She likes Kevin because she thinks that he knows she's a vampire, which makes her feel like they have a ‘bond’.\\+ In fact, the way it's written suggests that she didn't even intend to seduce him. I now 100% believe that her car was //actually// broken down and she really did need a ride home. The first time, I think, that she was like <q>“Okay, I want him”</q> was when she challenged him to guess her secret and, if he guesses right, she'll give him a kiss. He guesses that she's a vampire, which surprises her and makes her very happy. So this is more of an accidental reverse-seduction. She likes Kevin because she thinks that he knows she's a vampire, which makes her feel like they have a ‘bond’.\\
 Moving on from this initial meeting to a more positive observation about the way the story is written: it's pretty obvious to me that Mad doesn't actually love Kevin. Though Kevin seriously believes that she //does//. I'm not sure whether this is intentional on the part of the writers (I'm leaning towards “probably not”) but, whether it is or isn't, it's pretty nice.\\ Moving on from this initial meeting to a more positive observation about the way the story is written: it's pretty obvious to me that Mad doesn't actually love Kevin. Though Kevin seriously believes that she //does//. I'm not sure whether this is intentional on the part of the writers (I'm leaning towards “probably not”) but, whether it is or isn't, it's pretty nice.\\
-Basically, this is evident just from how they interact. After they have sex, Mad often just kicks Kevin out. Sometimes with a kiss (I assume), but oftentimes just “get dressed, I'll call a cab, get out”. Also, they //only// have sex. There are only two moments where they don't (as described by Kevin): one where they're watching TV //in-between sex// and once where they go dancing. It's also notable that they only go dancing because //Mad wants to//. Kevin never seems to suggest anything except sex. Also, that dance doesn't go particularly well because they murder Kevin's ‘friend’ Mitchell.((:fn:>I'm mentioning him here because he's another example of two things I noticed about this book: the first is the weird focus on sex. Mitchell has a big penis. This is actually written into it. The second is that this book doesn't understand what friends are, because Mitchell and Kevin are supposedly friends...but Kevin hates him. This is an overall trend in the book, where you either hate another person or you're having sex with them. There's no in-between. And even if you hate them, you have sex with them anyway.))\\ +Basically, this is evident just from how they interact. After they have sex, Mad often just kicks Kevin out. Sometimes with a kiss (I assume), but oftentimes just <q>“get dressed, I'll call a cab, get out”</q>. Also, they //only// have sex. There are only two moments where they don't (as described by Kevin): one where they're watching TV //in-between sex// and once where they go dancing. It's also notable that they only go dancing because //Mad wants to//. Kevin never seems to suggest anything except sex. Also, that dance doesn't go particularly well because they murder Kevin's ‘friend’ Mitchell.((:fn:>I'm mentioning him here because he's another example of two things I noticed about this book: the first is the weird focus on sex. Mitchell has a big penis. This is actually written into it. The second is that this book doesn't understand what friends are, because Mitchell and Kevin are supposedly friends...but Kevin hates him. This is an overall trend in the book, where you either hate another person or you're having sex with them. There's no in-between. And even if you hate them, you have sex with them anyway.))\\ 
-That dance night was also when Kevin actually realized she was a vampire. Until that point he mostly thought she was a bit weird and that it was her kink to drink his blood. I mean, they only murder Mitchell because Kevin thought he was special for her to drink his blood.\\ +That dance night was also when Kevin actually realized she was a vampire. Until that point he mostly thought she was a bit weird and that it was her kink to drink his blood. I mean, they only murder Mitchell because Kevin burst in after he got jealous of him when it became clear that Mad intended to suck him off (vampire-like). Until that point, Kevin assumed he was ‘special’ because she drank from him.\\ 
-Going along with my theory that Mad only likes Kevin because he's a convenient source of blood and she thinks he knew she was a vampire from the start...that night (and consequent 1 month break from the relationship) probably confirmed to her that she misunderstood how much he knew. So she dumps him by disappearing from his life. Also to evade the law because she //did// kill a guy.\\+Going along with my theory that Mad only likes Kevin because he's a convenient source of blood and she thinks he knew she was a vampire from the start...that night (and consequent 1 month break from the relationship) probably confirmed to her that she misunderstood how much he knew. So she dumps him by disappearing from his life. Also to evade the (vampire) law because she //did// kill a guy.\\
 So, again, I think it's obvious that Mad likes and cares for Kevin...but she doesn't mentally categorize him as a boyfriend. So, again, I think it's obvious that Mad likes and cares for Kevin...but she doesn't mentally categorize him as a boyfriend.
  
 Now we move on to some //math//. Y'see, I suspect that Kevin should be dead from blood-loss considering the frequency with which she feeds. And it's here that it's pretty clear the authors weren't thinking at all – which is further evidence to suggest that a lot of the other stuff in this book (fluff-wise) is broken or bizarre.\\ Now we move on to some //math//. Y'see, I suspect that Kevin should be dead from blood-loss considering the frequency with which she feeds. And it's here that it's pretty clear the authors weren't thinking at all – which is further evidence to suggest that a lot of the other stuff in this book (fluff-wise) is broken or bizarre.\\
 According to this [[https://bluesrat.com/wod/vtrcheat.html|cheatsheet]] I found for the first edition of //Vampire: The Requiem//((:fn:>I checked the second edition rules as well, though I couldn't find the information I was looking for from a skim.)) the average human can provide 7 points of blood for the same amount of health. For each point taken, the human takes 1 lethal damage. According to [[1d6>World of Darkness|1d6chan]], lethal damage takes a while to heal and can result in death if you max it out. So, basically, after approximately 7 sucks, Kevin would be dead.\\ According to this [[https://bluesrat.com/wod/vtrcheat.html|cheatsheet]] I found for the first edition of //Vampire: The Requiem//((:fn:>I checked the second edition rules as well, though I couldn't find the information I was looking for from a skim.)) the average human can provide 7 points of blood for the same amount of health. For each point taken, the human takes 1 lethal damage. According to [[1d6>World of Darkness|1d6chan]], lethal damage takes a while to heal and can result in death if you max it out. So, basically, after approximately 7 sucks, Kevin would be dead.\\
-Kevin claims that he had sex with Mad 3 times a week and, every time, she warmed herself up sometime during the process. Because warming up (whether the Blush of Life or Night Life) requires 1 point of Vitae, it would be counter-intuitive to spend blood to have sex without profiting somehow. And it is 100% certain that Mad used those sex sessions to get more than she put in. So, if we're generous, Mad would drink 2 points of blood very every session. That means that, within a week, Kevin is dead.+Kevin claims that he had sex with Mad 3+ times a week and, every time, she warmed herself up sometime during the process. Because warming up (whether the Blush of Life or Night Life) requires 1 point of Vitae, it would be counter-intuitive to spend blood to have sex without getting more blood out of it somehow. And it is 100% certain that Mad used those sex sessions to get more than she put in. So, if we're generous, Mad would drink 2 points of blood every session. That means that, within a week, Kevin is dead.
  
 The sex stuff here is also weird (if that wasn't already evident). It's so weird that it suggests one of two things: that vampires aren't fully ‘dead’ or that Kevin is a necrophiliac. I don't doubt the latter, but there's more evidence (in the book as a whole) to suggest the former. Notably that Kevin manages to penetrate Mad before she uses the Blush of Life. I'm no expert on having sex with corpses, so I relied on 1d6chan's [[1d6>Vampire:_The_Masquerade#You're_a_vampire_now,_so_what's_next?|Masquerade article]] which gives me the impression that doing so would be difficult, to put it lightly.\\ The sex stuff here is also weird (if that wasn't already evident). It's so weird that it suggests one of two things: that vampires aren't fully ‘dead’ or that Kevin is a necrophiliac. I don't doubt the latter, but there's more evidence (in the book as a whole) to suggest the former. Notably that Kevin manages to penetrate Mad before she uses the Blush of Life. I'm no expert on having sex with corpses, so I relied on 1d6chan's [[1d6>Vampire:_The_Masquerade#You're_a_vampire_now,_so_what's_next?|Masquerade article]] which gives me the impression that doing so would be difficult, to put it lightly.\\
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 This is an overall theme with the book: why do the Daeva even care about sex? That question sounds silly until you think about everything surrounding sex and vampires.\\ This is an overall theme with the book: why do the Daeva even care about sex? That question sounds silly until you think about everything surrounding sex and vampires.\\
-Vampires need to spend blood to warm up, which is counter-intuitive if your goal is to //get// blood. You'd have to take more than just a little in that case which is very risky because if you kill someone you lose humanity and gain a lot of unwanted attention. This is the pre-touchstone system, let's not forget.\\+Vampires need to spend blood to warm up, which is counter-intuitive if your goal is to //get// blood. You'd have to take more than just a little in that case which is very risky as it increases the chance of accidentally slurping someone to death. If you kill someone you lose humanity //and// gain a lot of unwanted attention. This is the pre-touchstone system, let's not forget, so it's not like that accidental death can be re-interpreted either.\\
 Doing it just for kicks also doesn't make a lot of rational sense because, again, you're spending blood for it and it doesn't feel as pleasurable for you as the Kiss does. So even emotionally you can argue it doesn't make sense. Doing it just for kicks also doesn't make a lot of rational sense because, again, you're spending blood for it and it doesn't feel as pleasurable for you as the Kiss does. So even emotionally you can argue it doesn't make sense.
  
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 Basically, the book //assumes// that Daeva would //want// sex to the point that they engage in casual sex regularly and the book //further assumes// that Daeva do this for the express purpose of remaining alive and preventing boredom. But then the worldbuilding actively undermines both of those goals from multiple angles. Which I'll get into later. Basically, the book //assumes// that Daeva would //want// sex to the point that they engage in casual sex regularly and the book //further assumes// that Daeva do this for the express purpose of remaining alive and preventing boredom. But then the worldbuilding actively undermines both of those goals from multiple angles. Which I'll get into later.
  
-Oh, right, I almost forgot to mention it. Kevin finds a comic tract at a bathroom one night and later buys two more. We, the readers, get to read those comics and, honestly, they are the highlight of the book. I would argue that the book is worth buying for these alone.\\ +Oh, right, I almost forgot to mention it. Kevin finds a comic tract at a bathroom one night and later buys two more. We, the readers, get to read those comics and, honestly, they are the highlight of the book. **I would argue that the book is worth buying for these alone**.\\ 
-They are written by vampires for vampires and they are legitimately funny. At least the first one is. And while Kevin has three we only see two...I was honestly enraged to find out there were only two in the book. I wouldn't mind seeing more of them but that's probably never happening.\\+They are written by vampires for vampires and they are legitimately funny. At least the first one is. And while Kevin has //three// we only see two...I was honestly enraged to find out there were only two in the book. I wouldn't mind seeing more of them but that's probably never happening.\\
 Also, there is still a sex assumption inside of them so bleh. Also, there is still a sex assumption inside of them so bleh.
  
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 Next is the next major part of the book: Ayesha's diary. And we see another issue: the diary is written like a novel, not a diary. It's not very diegetic. This applies generally to most of the notes we see in the book, I just noticed it most strongly here. Next is the next major part of the book: Ayesha's diary. And we see another issue: the diary is written like a novel, not a diary. It's not very diegetic. This applies generally to most of the notes we see in the book, I just noticed it most strongly here.
  
-Ayesha is a punk journalist and probably one of the bigger asshole characters in the book. I say this unironically after seeing Kevin. And I'm not just saying that because it's strongly implied she's a lesbian. All you really need to know is that she acts as a [[lb:wod:Brujah]] despite being closer-related to the [[lb:wod:Toreador]].\\+Ayesha is a punk journalist and probably one of the bigger asshole characters in the book. I say this unironically after seeing Kevin. And I'm not just saying that because it's strongly implied she's a lesbian. All you really need to know is that she acts like a [[lb:wod:Brujah]] despite being closer-related to the [[lb:wod:Toreador]].\\
 Ayesha is a journalist (the real reason I'm saying she's a bitch) who was tasked by her ‘father’ – the Collector – to perform a job.\\ Ayesha is a journalist (the real reason I'm saying she's a bitch) who was tasked by her ‘father’ – the Collector – to perform a job.\\
 The details of the job aren't that important, but what is important to note is that she kills a lot of people. We never see her killing directly (she never describes it directly in her diary) but during the course of the story she kills at least three and implies she killed several others in the past. This is her playing with her Humanity, meaning she probably goes into torpor for a while.\\ The details of the job aren't that important, but what is important to note is that she kills a lot of people. We never see her killing directly (she never describes it directly in her diary) but during the course of the story she kills at least three and implies she killed several others in the past. This is her playing with her Humanity, meaning she probably goes into torpor for a while.\\
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 Now, her killing people isn't much of an issue (putting aside //why// she does it) and the bigger issue is that she seems uninterested in the Masquerade, which raises questions about how she's even still alive. Now, her killing people isn't much of an issue (putting aside //why// she does it) and the bigger issue is that she seems uninterested in the Masquerade, which raises questions about how she's even still alive.
  
-Ayesha is a member of the Cacophany – which I already talked about briefly – which is why she's a journalist roaming around the place. She's been writing for them since the 70s at least, which is probably around the time she got Embraced. And it's also pretty clear that more conservative vampires have been aware of her and disapproved for a while.+Ayesha is a member of the Cacophany – which I already talked about briefly – which is why she's a journalist roaming around the place. She's been writing for them since the 70s at least, which is probably around the time she got Embraced. And it's also pretty clear that more conservative vampires have been aware of her and disapproved of her for a while.
  
 How is she still alive? How is she still alive?
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 It's unusual that, in all that time, she's apparently still mostly the same. And we know she's been mostly the same because we get an example of one of her articles from the 70s, which is written in essentially the same style as her modern articles (which we //also// see).\\ It's unusual that, in all that time, she's apparently still mostly the same. And we know she's been mostly the same because we get an example of one of her articles from the 70s, which is written in essentially the same style as her modern articles (which we //also// see).\\
 She's remained a punk for her entire life. Actually, she probably adopted the punk aesthetic in the 80s.\\ She's remained a punk for her entire life. Actually, she probably adopted the punk aesthetic in the 80s.\\
-I'm not saying she'd become a straight conservative good girl in all that time, just that it's incredibly unlikely that she's maintain her <q>“Fight the power!”</q> and rebellious attitude in all that time.\\+I'm not saying she'd become a straight conservative good girl in all that time, just that it's incredibly unlikely that she'd maintain her <q>“Fight the power!”</q> and rebellious attitude in all that time.\\
 Even putting aside natural tendencies to mellow out over time, the rest of vampire society would actively suppress her. If you're interested, read my [[lb:wnotes:vampires]] article. To sum it up though, since vampires would be primarily conservative and cautious, they would fight back very strongly against people like Ayesha. If she isn't executed on sight, she'd be locked up somewhere and then beaten and educated until she finally submits. Her only briefly meeting with a (presumed) member of the Invictus who almost kills her isn't enough, basically. Even putting aside natural tendencies to mellow out over time, the rest of vampire society would actively suppress her. If you're interested, read my [[lb:wnotes:vampires]] article. To sum it up though, since vampires would be primarily conservative and cautious, they would fight back very strongly against people like Ayesha. If she isn't executed on sight, she'd be locked up somewhere and then beaten and educated until she finally submits. Her only briefly meeting with a (presumed) member of the Invictus who almost kills her isn't enough, basically.
  
-That's a nice natural pivot over to Colonel Alvarez. Alvarez is presumably a Daeva who is a major force in the Invictus. I say ‘presumably’ because it's never explicitly stated. Alvarez is responsible for establishing a system wherein Daeva can enter nightclubs freely (that Alvarez operates) to feed off of the mortals who have to pay to enter. It's nice and safe and works out for everybody. Alvarez’s appearance is kind stupid and clashes completely with how conservative and authoritarian her personality is, but that's a side-note.\\+That's a nice natural pivot over to Colonel Alvarez. Alvarez is presumably a Daeva who is a major force in the Invictus. I say ‘presumably’ because it's never explicitly stated. Alvarez is responsible for establishing a system wherein Daeva can enter nightclubs freely (that Alvarez operates) to feed off of the mortals who have to pay to enter. It's nice and safe and works out for everybody. Alvarez’s appearance is kinda stupid and clashes completely with how conservative and authoritarian her personality is, but that's a side-note.\\
 Ayesha and Alvarez meet because Ayesha wants to interview/talk with Alvarez about this system. When they meet for the first time, they hug each-other. Ayesha states explicitly that she chose not to warm herself up for this, which implies that vampires normally warm themselves up to hug each-other. //That// is such interesting worldbuilding that I'm annoyed it's mentioned so casually. Ayesha and Alvarez meet because Ayesha wants to interview/talk with Alvarez about this system. When they meet for the first time, they hug each-other. Ayesha states explicitly that she chose not to warm herself up for this, which implies that vampires normally warm themselves up to hug each-other. //That// is such interesting worldbuilding that I'm annoyed it's mentioned so casually.
  
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 After that, Ayesha gets annoyed at being called a hooker (if that's the problem, then don't dress or act or fuck like one).\\ After that, Ayesha gets annoyed at being called a hooker (if that's the problem, then don't dress or act or fuck like one).\\
 Then Ayesha tries seduction and fails, so she kills a vampire. Then she bribes a ghoul with her own blood.\\ Then Ayesha tries seduction and fails, so she kills a vampire. Then she bribes a ghoul with her own blood.\\
-It's sometime during this that, for some godsforsaken reason, Ayesha writes some of her previous flirt/sex exploits to get stuff she wants.+It's sometime during this that, for some godsforsaken reason, Ayesha writes some of her previous exploits where she used flirting/sex to get stuff she wanted.
 <blockquote> <blockquote>
 I’m good with people, really I am. Wouldn’t be the first time I’ve flirted my way through a door, either. But eight years back the boys and I packed Vault, and I personally rocked it. Five years before that it was Elektrik. And when I was a very little girl who still happened to breathe, I got somebody’s head between my thighs for the first time ever at The Station. I’m good with people, really I am. Wouldn’t be the first time I’ve flirted my way through a door, either. But eight years back the boys and I packed Vault, and I personally rocked it. Five years before that it was Elektrik. And when I was a very little girl who still happened to breathe, I got somebody’s head between my thighs for the first time ever at The Station.
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 A hint for future writers: women typically don't write stuff like this into their diaries. Even if they're reminiscing, it is extremely unnatural for them to write it like //this//. A hint for future writers: women typically don't write stuff like this into their diaries. Even if they're reminiscing, it is extremely unnatural for them to write it like //this//.
  
-The other thing I noticed after re-reading that bit is that...well, this quote from her is hilariously ironic, considering //every attempt at seduction she makes fails//. I'm not exaggerating. For someone who brags about being flirtatious and for //being a Daeva//, she is awful at seduction. Every single time she's had to result to some kind of threat instead.\\+The other thing I noticed after re-reading that bit is that...well, this quote from her is hilariously ironic, considering //every attempt at seduction she makes fails//. I'm not exaggerating. For someone who brags about being flirtatious and for //being a Daeva//, she is awful at seduction. Every single time she's attempted it, Ayesha has had to resort to some kind of threat instead.\\
 Again, very Brujah, but not very Daeva. And I think this is 100% unintentional on the part of the writers. Again, very Brujah, but not very Daeva. And I think this is 100% unintentional on the part of the writers.
  
 Actually, another sudden realization. This might actually undermine my greater point, but I guess I should explain it. Ayesha //could// be a non-sex example of the Daeva theme of ‘passion’ manifesting, just that it's a //really tenuous connection// and, if it //is// there, it's unintentional. Or the writers //did// intend it, but didn't do a good job of showing it.\\ Actually, another sudden realization. This might actually undermine my greater point, but I guess I should explain it. Ayesha //could// be a non-sex example of the Daeva theme of ‘passion’ manifesting, just that it's a //really tenuous connection// and, if it //is// there, it's unintentional. Or the writers //did// intend it, but didn't do a good job of showing it.\\
 Ayesha is potentially passionate about being rebellious and a punk journalist. That could be the passion that she embodies.\\ Ayesha is potentially passionate about being rebellious and a punk journalist. That could be the passion that she embodies.\\
-What undermines that is the fact she is still stricken with the weird sex stuff and, again, it's not really focused on that much outside of her Brujah-like personality.+What undermines that is the fact she is still stricken with the weird sex stuff and, again, it's not really focused on //that// much outside of her Brujah-like personality.
 ==== Letter ==== ==== Letter ====
 There's another brief interlude written by a ‘relative’ of the Collector. To sum it up, the letter basically says <q>“I'm not crazy, I'm just gonna have a drink and also I miss you mom.”</q>\\ There's another brief interlude written by a ‘relative’ of the Collector. To sum it up, the letter basically says <q>“I'm not crazy, I'm just gonna have a drink and also I miss you mom.”</q>\\
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 The Collector is called racist by a green sticky note (in a seemingly endearing tone). This is because the Collector suggests that the earliest human bodies that we found in Africa and China couldn't have matched the mental faculties of actual humans.\\ The Collector is called racist by a green sticky note (in a seemingly endearing tone). This is because the Collector suggests that the earliest human bodies that we found in Africa and China couldn't have matched the mental faculties of actual humans.\\
-I initially agreed that this is a clear-cut sign of racism, but I'm not so sure anymore. Mainly because this implies it refers to //Homo Erectus// and not //Homo Sapiens//. The key fact is ‘China’, which is a bit weird to mention in the context of the oldest human remains. So calling him racist might actually be unwarranted because Homo Erectus objectively //didn't// have the same mental faculties as Homo Sapiens.+I initially agreed that this is a clear-cut sign of racism, but I'm not so sure anymore. Mainly because this implies it refers to //Homo Erectus// and not //Homo Sapiens//. The key mention is ‘China’, which would be strange to mention in the context of the oldest human remains. So calling him racist might actually be unwarranted because Homo Erectus objectively //didn't// have the same mental faculties as Homo Sapiens.
  
 The Collector makes the claim that Kindred started in the City of Ur and the sticky notes disagree with him, which is kinda amusing. The Collector makes the claim that Kindred started in the City of Ur and the sticky notes disagree with him, which is kinda amusing.
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 Also, there's another mention of the Duchess. She's mentioned a few times, but I didn't mention her at all because she is barely plot-relevant. She'd described as beautiful and the Collector says she's jealous of people. I don't really get it. Also, there's another mention of the Duchess. She's mentioned a few times, but I didn't mention her at all because she is barely plot-relevant. She'd described as beautiful and the Collector says she's jealous of people. I don't really get it.
 +
 +Oh, right...why does //Cat// have the notes? After Ayesha didn't come back for a long time, Cat does a Kevin and starts looking for her. She's the last person to go thru all the notes that we read, though it's not super clear //how// she got them. Yeah, that's it.
 ===== Conclusion ===== ===== Conclusion =====
 This conclusion section is, so far, mostly focused on the hedonism present in the book. Specifically to address a possible counter-argument that will be leveled towards me: that the large focus on sex is fine because the Daeva are hedonists and, thus, it's only natural that sex will appear so often. This is also definitely what the authors think (because they even say that Daeva and sex kinda go hand-in-hand in the appendix). But I wouldn't say that's the case. And I'll explain why. In detail. This conclusion section is, so far, mostly focused on the hedonism present in the book. Specifically to address a possible counter-argument that will be leveled towards me: that the large focus on sex is fine because the Daeva are hedonists and, thus, it's only natural that sex will appear so often. This is also definitely what the authors think (because they even say that Daeva and sex kinda go hand-in-hand in the appendix). But I wouldn't say that's the case. And I'll explain why. In detail.
  
-Vampires in //Requiem// are walking corpses. As walking corpses...they are cold to the touch and their feelings are numbed. In order to warm up, they have to use the Blush of Life – spend some blood to feel alive again for a brief moment. Further, because they're vampires, their new ‘sex’ is the Kiss: drinking blood brings them more ecstasy than sex ever did in life and it pleasures the Kine they drink from as well.\\+Vampires in //Requiem// are walking corpses. As walking corpses...they are cold to the touch and their feelings are numbed. In order to warm up, they have to use the Blush of Life – spend some blood to feel alive again for a brief moment. Further, because they're vampires, their ‘new sex’ is the Kiss: drinking blood brings them more ecstasy than sex ever did in life, plus it pleasures the Kine they drink from as well.\\
 These two key facts are the main issue with “sex and Daeva”.\\ These two key facts are the main issue with “sex and Daeva”.\\
 Because there is an assumption that Daeva would go all-in on sex, but the consequences are not thought out. I go over a few above, but I'll summarize them here. Because it costs blood to even have sex, the process isn't exactly trivial. It isn't like a human, who can go at it essentially whenever and wherever: there is an explicit cost attached to it which additionally has some risks. Spending blood means you have to regain it later. So having sex for the purpose of getting that blood is counter-intuitive and entirely unnecessary when orgasm can be achieved by the human //and// vampire by drinking //without sex//. All the sex means is that the vampire has to drink //more// to make up for the loss, which comes with the risk of harming (or killing) the human they're drinking from in the first place.\\ Because there is an assumption that Daeva would go all-in on sex, but the consequences are not thought out. I go over a few above, but I'll summarize them here. Because it costs blood to even have sex, the process isn't exactly trivial. It isn't like a human, who can go at it essentially whenever and wherever: there is an explicit cost attached to it which additionally has some risks. Spending blood means you have to regain it later. So having sex for the purpose of getting that blood is counter-intuitive and entirely unnecessary when orgasm can be achieved by the human //and// vampire by drinking //without sex//. All the sex means is that the vampire has to drink //more// to make up for the loss, which comes with the risk of harming (or killing) the human they're drinking from in the first place.\\
 This is especially bad in the case of Mad and Kevin, where Kevin will have died within a week of meeting her based on how often they have sex. That would immediately bring attention towards Mad and result in her exposure or death.\\ This is especially bad in the case of Mad and Kevin, where Kevin will have died within a week of meeting her based on how often they have sex. That would immediately bring attention towards Mad and result in her exposure or death.\\
-So some reason has to be given for //why// they keep having sex and the book makes no attempt at doing just that. So there's a massive hole in the logic behind the assumptions driving much of the book.+So some reason has to be given for //why// they keep having sex. But the book makes no attempt at doing that. So there's a massive hole in the logic behind the assumptions driving much of the book.
  
-The other major issue is on a more thematic meta-sense and once I lay it out, I think it'll become obvious that //Kiss of the Succubus// failed to deliver.\\+The other major issue is more thematic or meta and once I lay it out, I think it'll become obvious that //Kiss of the Succubus// failed to deliver.\\
 The five clans of vampires in Requiem each represent a broad archetype of the vampire from fiction. And each of those also has a major theme attached. For the Daeva, the archetype is the ‘seducer’ and their theme is ‘passion’. For the Nosferatu, the archetype is the ‘inhuman monster’ and their theme ‘inhumanity’.((:fn:>Yeah I know, bear with me.))\\ The five clans of vampires in Requiem each represent a broad archetype of the vampire from fiction. And each of those also has a major theme attached. For the Daeva, the archetype is the ‘seducer’ and their theme is ‘passion’. For the Nosferatu, the archetype is the ‘inhuman monster’ and their theme ‘inhumanity’.((:fn:>Yeah I know, bear with me.))\\
-The Nosferatu, despite having that archetype, don't all just appear like ugly diseased monstrosities. Some of them actually appear fairly normal and only act monstrous. Some, in fact, appear so beautiful that it enters the Uncanny Valley and freaks others out in that way. Here you can clearly see that their theme was explored to the fullest. And I'm just mentioning a few examples.\\+The Nosferatu, despite having that archetype, don't all just appear like ugly diseased monstrosities. Some of them actually appear fairly normal and only act monstrous. Some, in fact, appear so beautiful that it enters the Uncanny Valley and freaks others out. Here you can clearly see that their theme was explored to the fullest. And I'm just mentioning a few examples.\\
 This book, meanwhile, assumes that //all Daeva are in some way sex-obsessed// and it barely acknowledges ‘passion’ manifesting in any way besides sex. The main examples of non-sex Daeva-like passion are within Kevin's 10 observed vampires – specifically the NARCANON organizer and art teacher – and Ayesha //possibly// embodying passion for rebellion. However, even those examples are implied to have some connection to sex. This book, meanwhile, assumes that //all Daeva are in some way sex-obsessed// and it barely acknowledges ‘passion’ manifesting in any way besides sex. The main examples of non-sex Daeva-like passion are within Kevin's 10 observed vampires – specifically the NARCANON organizer and art teacher – and Ayesha //possibly// embodying passion for rebellion. However, even those examples are implied to have some connection to sex.
  
 Wouldn't it have been significantly more interesting to see stuff like the game center nerd vampire? Someone who is passionate about games and playing games with others, so she positions herself as the Queen bee.\\ Wouldn't it have been significantly more interesting to see stuff like the game center nerd vampire? Someone who is passionate about games and playing games with others, so she positions herself as the Queen bee.\\
-Or, alternatively, that passion manifesting as religious Zeal? That topic is not touched on at all, despite the numerous references to the Lancae et Sanctum.+Or, alternatively, that passion manifesting as religious zeal? That topic is not touched on at all, despite the numerous references to the Lancae et Sanctum.
  
-Even putting aside the them of passion, the Daeva are the vampire clan closest to humanity. This is inherited from the [[lb:wod:Toreador]] from the old World of Darkness. Like the Toreador, they care the most about humans and are the overall nicest clan. The rest of the clans barely care about humanity as a whole – in fact, it's like the Daeva are the only clan who even have the capacity to care. This sets the Daeva apart big time.\\ +Even putting aside the theme of passion, the Daeva are the vampire clan closest to humanity. This is inherited from the [[lb:wod:Toreador]] from the old World of Darkness. Like the Toreador, they care the most about humans, being the overall nicest clan. The rest of the clans barely care about humanity as a whole – in fact, it's like the Daeva are the only clan who even have the //capacity// to care. This sets the Daeva apart big time.\\ 
-Wouldn't it have been interesting to see //how// the Daeva deal with this? Perhaps their friendliness with humans puts them in jeopardy. Or it's what allow the Kindred to actually interact with the world as a whole.+Wouldn't it have been interesting to see //how// the Daeva deal with this? Perhaps their friendliness with humans puts them in jeopardy? Or it's what allow the Kindred to actually interact with the world as a whole? Maybe we see Daeva just...chilling and living like a normal person, with normal human friends?
  
 Instead of constantly reading uncomfortable sex prose, we could have been reading about how the Daeva reconcile their existence as they predate on those they love. Instead of constantly reading uncomfortable sex prose, we could have been reading about how the Daeva reconcile their existence as they predate on those they love.
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 ===== Trivilinks ===== ===== Trivilinks =====
 +  * [[https://www.storytellersvault.com/en/product/55799/kiss-of-the-succubus-daeva?affiliate_id=4403315|Storyteller's Vault Link]] – This is an affiliate link to the Storyteller's Vault, where you can purchase //Kiss of the Succubus//. Note that, as an affiliate link, I would get a small portion of whatever you spend.
   * [[https://www.flamesrising.com/daeva-clanbook-review/|Review]] by ‘Billzilla’. I haven't read it, though a skim-thru indicates that it's significantly more positive than I am (downright ignorant, I'd say...). I'll read it later, but I'm including it because why not?   * [[https://www.flamesrising.com/daeva-clanbook-review/|Review]] by ‘Billzilla’. I haven't read it, though a skim-thru indicates that it's significantly more positive than I am (downright ignorant, I'd say...). I'll read it later, but I'm including it because why not?
 +  * I know there are a few problems in the writing on this article, which I'll fix later.
 +  * When I say that the cover is great, I do mean it: I really like the cover art, even if everything else is kinda meh. That alone I would like to own.
 +  * <del>There was something else I wanted to write here, but I don't remember what it is.</del> I remembered, it was really //weird// speculation surrounding female vampires and why they might prefer sex with mortals.
 +  * I actually went out of my way to count the number of artworks in the book and you'll find out why soon enough.
 +    * There are **34** pieces of artwork depicting people.
 +    * **27** of those depict women.
 +    * Of those...**9** of them depict a woman wearing a skirt or dress and, of those, **3** are **borderline**. One of them is in the background, one is out-of-frame and one is from a children's drawing.
 +    * There are **5** pictures depicting nudity, though technically **6** or **8** if you count the one naked guy (top-half only) and pictures where the nudity is off-screen but it's obvious they're nude.
 +    * Only **2** depict women wearing underwear.
 +  * The skirt counting was me checking whether the book exemplifies the [[lb:Alyx effect]].
lb/cod/daeva.clanbook.1760792157.txt.gz · Last modified: 2025-10-18 12:55:57 by ninjasr
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