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--- lb:lilith [2025-04-30 17:29:47] – ↷ Page moved from playground:lilith to lb:lilith ninjasr
+++ lb:lilith [2025-05-06 06:15:18] (current) – [Origin] ninjasr
@@ Line 9: / Line 9: @@
 ==== Origin ====
-The origin here is concerned with Lilith the //character// rather than the original original ‘Lilith’ which was a monster. //That// Lilith is basically ‘just a [[playground:succubus#lilitulillilith|succubus]]’...so if you want to read that, then that link will take you to the section that //very very briefly// explains that.\\  The character, Lilith, was created due to a misunderstanding, which I mentioned in the opening text. That misunderstanding is related to how the Bible is written.\\  The Bible was originally composed of multiple texts that were smushed together for some reason - not relevant to what we're talking about. However, people eventually just...forgot this.\\  The part of the Bible where the smushing is most evident is in Genesis and, by some miracle, there are two separate depictions of the first woman (Eve) being created. One of those is the ‘from rib’ creation and the other is an ex nihilo creation, similar to Adam's creation.\\  Since people forgot that the Bible was compiled from multiple texts, they looked at this and started asking...why were there two women? This eventually transformed into ‘first woman left, so God made another one’ and then that ‘first woman’ was identified as Lilith...a name used later in the Bible to refer to a monster.\\  Honestly I...don't understand the logic behind identifying the first woman with Lilith, but that's what ended up happening.\\  So that's the origin of Lilith.
+The origin here is concerned with Lilith the //character// rather than the original original ‘Lilith’ which was a monster. //That// Lilith is basically ‘just a [[lb:succubus#lilitulillilith|succubus]]’...so if you want to read that, then that link will take you to the section that //very very briefly// explains that.\\  The character, Lilith, was created due to a misunderstanding, which I mentioned in the opening text. That misunderstanding is related to how the Bible is written.\\  The Bible was originally composed of multiple texts that were smushed together for some reason - not relevant to what we're talking about. However, people eventually just...forgot this.\\  The part of the Bible where the smushing is most evident is in Genesis and, by some miracle, there are two separate depictions of the first woman (Eve) being created. One of those is the ‘from rib’ creation and the other is an ex nihilo creation, similar to Adam's creation. The ‘from rib’ one is the second one.\\  Since people forgot that the Bible was compiled from multiple texts, they looked at this and started asking...why were there two women? This eventually transformed into ‘first woman left, so God made another one’ and then that ‘first woman’ was identified as Lilith...a name used later in the Bible to refer to a monster.\\  Honestly I...don't understand the logic behind identifying the first woman with Lilith, but that's what ended up happening.\\  So that's the origin of Lilith.
 ==== Wicca ====
@@ Line 21: / Line 22: @@
 ==== Syncretism ====
-This is a very small note in the grand scheme of things, since I've chosen to ignore her ‘basically a [[playground:succubus]]’ originator.\\  That and this have been identified with a few other creatures, which I'm gonna list here:
+This is a very small note in the grand scheme of things, since I've chosen to ignore her ‘basically a [[lb:succubus]]’ originator.\\  That and this have been identified with a few other creatures, which I'm gonna list here:
   * Onocentaur
-  * [[playground:Lamia]]
+  * [[lb:lamia]]
   * An owl
-I got most of these from the [[you>2F90C4cByhA|video]] listed below. Of those three, the most sensible one is the Lamia, which is ‘basically a [[playground:succubus]]’ as well.
+I got most of these from the [[you>2F90C4cByhA|video]] listed below. Of those three, the most sensible one is the Lamia, which is ‘basically a [[lb:succubus]]’ as well.
 ==== Succubus ====
-Since the original monster that Lilith is derived from is ‘just a [[playground:succubus]]’, you should not be surprised to find that that monster is a succubus.\\  However, what I find more interesting is how Lilith is connected to succubi nowadays.\\  This varies a lot, of course, but there's a general thread of Lilith being the progenitor or Queen of the succubi...which isn't that surprising, as she's sometimes just identified as the progenitor of demons in general.\\  I think that this is interesting because it's a connection to her origin point, in a way. Her status as the mother of demons is something that, to my knowledge, came //after// she became a distinct character, which then got connected to succubi in general.\\  Obviously, though, Lilith is also sometimes just a name for a succubus.
+Since the original monster that Lilith is derived from is ‘just a [[lb:succubus]]’, you should not be surprised to find that that monster is a succubus.\\  However, what I find more interesting is how Lilith is connected to succubi nowadays.\\  This varies a lot, of course, but there's a general thread of Lilith being the progenitor or Queen of the succubi...which isn't that surprising, as she's sometimes just identified as the progenitor of demons in general.\\  I think that this is interesting because it's a connection to her origin point, in a way. Her status as the mother of demons is something that, to my knowledge, came //after// she became a distinct character, which then got connected to succubi in general.\\  Obviously, though, Lilith is also sometimes just a name for a succubus.
 ===== Media Depictions =====
@@ Line 41: / Line 42: @@
 ==== In Nomine ====
-This is referring to the //[[1d6>In Nomine]]// role-playing game by [[1d6>Steve Jackson Games]] ([[1d6>GURPS]]). It's reportedly a sandbox-y type game inspired by Abrahamic Mythology where you either take control of the forces of Hell or the forces of Heaven. Lilith is included as a ‘superior’ of Hell.\\  Probably one of the more interesting depictions of Lilith, which emphasizes her independence. To be clear, I've //only// read the //Superiors// splatbook on Lilith which I //think// I read fully. I got my hands on it due to [[playground:piracy|mysterious circumstances]]. Besides that, I'm working off of the [[1d6>In_Nomine|1d6chan article]] on //In Nomine//.\\  Basically, Lilith appears to have been part of the Garden of Eden experiment, but she didn't want to be subservient to Adam, so she left. She is technically part of Hell as one of their Princesses, but is more like a neutral party. The reason being that she really doesn't seem to care about what everyone else is doing: she's just focused on that capital F Freedom(tm). Her whole shtick is that she offers favors in exchange for other favors.((:fn:>This makes her similar to Lucifer from Lucifer, which is probably just a coincidence.)) So, if you ask her for something, she'll do it for you as long as you promise to do something for her in the future.\\  So you //could// ask her to help you lose your virginity. She'll help out with that and then later she'll ask you to burn the holy land. So you should probably think these things through first.\\  Her Lilim do much the same: offering favors in exchange for favors.\\  This depiction means she is one of the most chill...anythings in the world of In Nomine, at least relatively speaking.((:fn:>Based on my limited understanding of course.)) She doesn't care about the war and is seemingly content.\\  I think that this depiction is probably the best source of inspiration for a morally neutral or good Lilith, considering her relatively chill attitude towards everything...including morality.
+This is referring to the //[[1d6>In Nomine]]// role-playing game by [[1d6>Steve Jackson Games]] ([[1d6>GURPS]]). It's reportedly a sandbox-y type game inspired by Abrahamic Mythology where you either join the forces of Hell or the forces of Heaven. Lilith is included as a ‘superior’ of Hell.\\  Probably one of the more interesting depictions of Lilith, which emphasizes her independence. To be clear, I've //only// read the //Superiors// splatbook on Lilith which I //think// I read fully. I got my hands on it due to [[playground:piracy|mysterious circumstances]]. Besides that, I'm working off of the [[1d6>In_Nomine|1d6chan article]] on //In Nomine//.\\  Basically, Lilith appears to have been part of the Garden of Eden experiment, but she didn't want to be subservient to Adam, so she left. She is technically part of Hell as one of their Princesses, but is more like a neutral party. The reason being that she really doesn't seem to care about what everyone else is doing: she's just focused on that capital F Freedom(tm). Her whole shtick is that she offers favors in exchange for other favors.((:fn:>This makes her similar to Lucifer from Lucifer, which is probably just a coincidence.)) So, if you ask her for something, she'll do it for you as long as you promise to do something for her in the future.\\  So you //could// ask her to help you lose your virginity. She'll help out with that and then later she'll ask you to burn the holy land. So you should probably think these things through first.\\  Her Lilim do much the same: offering favors in exchange for favors.\\  This depiction means she is one of the most chill...anythings in the world of In Nomine, at least relatively speaking.((:fn:>Based on my limited understanding of course.)) She doesn't care about the war and is seemingly content.\\  I think that this depiction is probably the best source of inspiration for a morally neutral or good Lilith, considering her relatively chill attitude towards everything...including morality.
 ==== Lucifer ====
@@ Line 49: / Line 50: @@
 ==== World of Darkness ====
-{{wst>main|playground:world of darkness}} Most of my information comes from 1d6chan, the White Wolf wiki and...yeah, that's about it. Despite that...\\  There really isn't much about Lilith in the grand scheme of things. There is //something// here, but not much of it.((:fn:>I'm noting this in a footnote for now, but there is actually more here than I realized. Lilith has quite a bit written about her in the Gehenna book (which is after [[playground:Revelations of the Dark Mother]] but whatever) which elaborates a bit on her.))\\  Here is what's known for sure about Lilith: she was part of the Garden of Eden, which she left, though we can’t be sure why.((:fn:>Yes, I know. We'll get to it.)) At some point during her travels she met Lucifer who taught her magic.((:fn:>It's here that she may or may not have banged Lucifer, it's not really clear. She may have also banged big G but...I seriously doubt that because I cannot even begin to imagine what kind of situation could have arisen for that to occur.)) She and Lucifer separated and wandered around some more until she met Caine. She took pity on him and decided to be with him. Via her magic, she helped teach Caine stuff about his own supernatural abilities. Unfortunately, Caine was still an asshole, so he eventually left her. Lilith may or may not have ever forgiven him for this. Alone again, Lilith decided to create her own Garden of Eden with a seed she //probably// received from Lucifer.\\  The most consistent first-hand characterization we get of her is from her end-time scenario for Vampire, where she wants to kill Caine.((:fn:>That grudge lasted a while.)) The players are tasked by her to help her with this task.\\  Whether she succeeds or fails is, of course, up to the players but if she succeeds and the players kill Caine...well, the players will not be able to enter Heaven but she'll be nice and let them stay in her garden. She can also fail catastrophically, though you should read that on 1d6chan instead.\\  This is where the clear stuff ends and where the crazy stuff begins. The stuff that I have relayed to you, dear reader, is stuff that I would consider ‘unambiguously canon’ while the stuff I will relate to you now is stuff I'd consider ‘absolutely non-canon’ due to the fact this information comes from [[playground:Revelations of the Dark Mother]], which I plan to read at some point to assess the damage. That book was written by [[1d6>Phil Brucato]]. If you want to know about him well, first, read that 1d6chan page and then consider the fact he is called ‘GoatFucker’.\\  But, basically, that book is centered around what the worshippers of Lilith believe about Lilith. And those worshippers of Lilith are completely insane. They are BDSM-obsessed misandrists who lean on the S part of BDSM. For example, they believe that Adam attempted to or succeeded in raping Lilith, which is why she left Eden. I find that unlikely, but I digress. They also believe that she had banged Eve (as the snake no less), Lucifer and God himself. If you can figure that out...yeah.\\  There are some other weird things that come from that...like the fact Lilith is the first woman and Eve is the third.\\  From a worldbuilding standpoint that's just really weird no matter how you look at it. Lilith's whole thing is that she's the //mysterious first woman// and Eve is the second woman that everyone else is descended from. Adding a third woman on top of that just...well, at that point why even stop at three? Just make 12 women.\\  Now, excluding that insanity...we can’t really be sure //why// Lilith left the Garden of Eden (or got kicked out). We can’t really be sure of anything about her, honestly, she's a mystery in WoD just like in the folklore...just slightly less of a mystery.\\  This Lilith is also quite sympathetic, since she gets abandoned (allegedly) by every person she loves. She can even fail her end-time scenario which, granted, is a murder plot...but still.\\  I don't have much to say conclusively. This version of Lilith is still mysterious, but does have a more sympathetic edge, so I guess she's a good source of inspiration in that regard.\\  Also...I don't know for sure, but I don't think Lilith makes an appearance in the [[playground:Chronicles of Darkness]] which is unsurprising.
+{{wst>main|lb:wod}} Most of my information comes from 1d6chan, the White Wolf wiki and...yeah, that's about it. Despite that...\\  There really isn't much about Lilith in the grand scheme of things. There is //something// here, but not much of it.((:fn:>I'm noting this in a footnote for now, but there is actually more here than I realized. Lilith has quite a bit written about her in the Gehenna book (which is after [[playground:Revelations of the Dark Mother]] but whatever) which elaborates a bit on her.))\\  Here is what's known for sure about Lilith: she was part of the Garden of Eden, which she left, though we can’t be sure why.((:fn:>Yes, I know. We'll get to it.)) At some point during her travels she met Lucifer who taught her magic.((:fn:>It's here that she may or may not have banged Lucifer, it's not really clear. She may have also banged big G but...I seriously doubt that because I cannot even begin to imagine what kind of situation could have arisen for that to occur.)) She and Lucifer separated and wandered around some more until she met Caine. She took pity on him and decided to be with him. Via her magic, she helped teach Caine stuff about his own supernatural abilities. Unfortunately, Caine was still an asshole, so he eventually left her. Lilith may or may not have ever forgiven him for this. Alone again, Lilith decided to create her own Garden of Eden with a seed she //probably// received from Lucifer.\\  The most consistent first-hand characterization we get of her is from her end-time scenario for Vampire, where she wants to kill Caine.((:fn:>That grudge lasted a while.)) The players are tasked by her to help her with this task.\\  Whether she succeeds or fails is, of course, up to the players but if she succeeds and the players kill Caine...well, the players will not be able to enter Heaven but she'll be nice and let them stay in her garden. She can also fail catastrophically, though you should read that on 1d6chan instead.\\  This is where the clear stuff ends and where the crazy stuff begins. The stuff that I have relayed to you, dear reader, is stuff that I would consider ‘unambiguously canon’ while the stuff I will relate to you now is stuff I'd consider ‘absolutely non-canon’ due to the fact this information comes from [[playground:Revelations of the Dark Mother]], which I plan to read at some point to assess the damage. That book was written by [[1d6>Phil Brucato]]. If you want to know about him well, first, read that 1d6chan page and then consider the fact he is called ‘GoatFucker’.\\  But, basically, that book is centered around what the worshippers of Lilith believe about Lilith. And those worshippers of Lilith are completely insane. They are BDSM-obsessed misandrists who lean on the S part of BDSM. For example, they believe that Adam attempted to or succeeded in raping Lilith, which is why she left Eden. I find that unlikely, but I digress. They also believe that she had banged Eve (as the snake no less), Lucifer and God himself. If you can figure that out...yeah.\\  There are some other weird things that come from that...like the fact Lilith is the first woman and Eve is the third.\\  From a worldbuilding standpoint that's just really weird no matter how you look at it. Lilith's whole thing is that she's the //mysterious first woman// and Eve is the second woman that everyone else is descended from. Adding a third woman on top of that just...well, at that point why even stop at three? Just make 12 women.\\  Now, excluding that insanity...we can’t really be sure //why// Lilith left the Garden of Eden (or got kicked out). We can’t really be sure of anything about her, honestly, she's a mystery in WoD just like in the folklore...just slightly less of a mystery.\\  This Lilith is also quite sympathetic, since she gets abandoned (allegedly) by every person she loves. She can even fail her end-time scenario which, granted, is a murder plot...but still.\\  I don't have much to say conclusively. This version of Lilith is still mysterious, but does have a more sympathetic edge, so I guess she's a good source of inspiration in that regard.\\  Also...I don't know for sure, but I don't think Lilith makes an appearance in the [[lb:cod]] which is unsurprising.
 ===== Worldbuilding Notes =====
@@ Line 85: / Line 86: @@
 ===== Trivilinks =====
-  * [[you>2F90C4cByhA|Who is Lilith? Adam’s first wife?]] - A video by [[playground:Trey the Explainer]] about Lilith. A pretty good video about her.
+  * [[you>2F90C4cByhA|Who is Lilith? Adam’s first wife?]] - A video by [[lb:trey.the.explainer]] about Lilith. A pretty good video about her.
   * [[https://succubus.net/wiki/Lilith]]