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--- lb:opinion:on.neo-elvish [2025-08-23 20:00:02] – created ninjasr
+++ lb:opinion:on.neo-elvish [2025-08-24 14:35:57] (current) – [Neo-Elvish] ninjasr
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 This opinion piece exists to put down my thoughts on the pursuit of the Neo-Elvish languages – mainly Quenya and Sindarin.\\
 I'm writing this because there are perspectives on Neo-Elvish that conflict and lead to what I'd call “stupid hate”.
+I may improve this article over time, gradually.
+{{tag>legendarium opinion}}
 ===== Tolkien's Aim =====
 Tolkien's aim with the elvish languages wasn't to create a ‘finished’ language that he could speak in with others (as is often the case with most conlangs) but to create languages that he thought were aesthetically pleasing. Though I'm not 100% convinced of this as the //sole// reason he made his languages – mostly because, logically, you wouldn't create //more than one// in that situation – but it //is// the main reason he made his languages.((:fn:>What else makes me second-guess this is that, based on what I know about Tolkien...he probably //did// want to learn to speak Quenya/Sindarin at some point. I say this just based on his own words. In //Elvish as She Is Wrote// written by Carl F. Hostetter, he shares contents of letters written by Tolkien. In them, Tolkien explains that he would have liked to write the entire //Lord of The Rings// in Elvish if he could. While he's no doubt exaggerating, I would actually argue that this indicates that Tolkien would have //liked// to speak/write in ‘Elvish’ himself. It's just as likely to me – considering Tolkien's perfectionism streak – that Tolkien didn't speak ‘Elvish’ because he didn't feel the need to...but because he never actually finished Elvish.))\\
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 However, this conflicts with the idea of, y'know, learning Quenya with the intent to speak it.
 ===== Fan Aims =====
-Generally, fans have a desire to learn languages. If you present them with an elvish language, they're gonna wanna know how to speak it. There are dozens of reasons //why// besides “just learning it for the sake of learning it” and I won't really bother listing them all. Some simple ones would be to produce fanfiction or get tattoos.((:fn:>Don't I don't necessarily approve of tattoos in general.))
+Generally, fans have a desire to learn languages. If you present them with an elvish language, they're gonna wanna know how to speak it. There are dozens of reasons //why// besides “just learning it for the sake of learning it” and I won't really bother listing them all. Some simple ones would be to produce fanfiction or get tattoos.((:fn:>Though I don't necessarily approve of tattoos in general.))
 This conflicts with Tolkien's aim when creating languages, however.
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 The arguments in favor are based around the desire to speak these languages. The arguments against are that they'd go against Tolkien's vision.
-Carl F. Hostetter goes a step further and believes that Tolkien wouldn't like people's attempts to finish his languages for him. That's something I'm not sure about, as it seems a serious leap in logic.((:fn:>I also think it's a leap to suggest Tolkien didn't want to speak his own languages, which is something that Mr. Hostetter seems to sincerely believe. I don't know Tolkien as much, but I found it doubtful.))
+Carl F. Hostetter goes a step further and believes that Tolkien wouldn't like people's attempts to finish his languages for him. That's something I'm not sure about, as it seems a serious leap in logic.((:fn:>I also think it's a leap to suggest Tolkien didn't want to speak his own languages, which is something that Mr. Hostetter seems to sincerely believe. I don't know Tolkien as much, but I found it doubtful. Hostetter's argument seems to be based around the fact Tolkien constantly changed the languages. But this //also// applies to Tolkien's stories. So, does that mean that Tolkien had no inclination to finish //The Silmarillion// either? I think that Occam's Razor suggests that Tolkien //did// have the intent to speak Quenya/Sindarin and never did because he just didn't finish the languages due to his own perfectionism – just like //The Silmarillion//.))
 Moving on, I think that the conflict here is kinda dumb, because it should be obvious to onlookers that Tolkien's motivations for making the languages and the Neo-Elvish effort are two different things. Though I'm not sure I can articulate exactly what I mean right now.\\
 I //think// that I'm trying to get across that it's okay that fans and Tolkien aren't exactly aligned in their goals: one doesn't de-legitimize the other. In fact, I don't see how Neo-Elvish (if handled properly as I believe Eldamo is for example) would be disrespectful towards Tolkien.
+===== Stupid Hate =====
+I mentioned this in the opening of the article, so I'll elaborate what I mean. The people who are against Neo-Elvish tend to come off as if they just hate the enterprise completely. And it seems stupid to me because there's no actual conflict.
+Though this could also be Academia's tendency to want to treat everything like a museum artifact, reacting with hostility to any attempt at making it lived-in.