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--- lb:wc:scarlet.crusade [2025-09-19 12:47:11] – ↷ Page moved from playground:wc:scarlet.crusade to lb:wc:scarlet.crusade ninjasr
+++ lb:wc:scarlet.crusade [2026-01-09 15:11:27] (current) – [Description] ninjasr
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 {{tag>warcraft}}
 ===== Description =====
-I won't beat around the bush: Blizzard fucked up the writing of the Crusade. Originally, I thought it was bad, but not that bad...I've changed my mind. The Scarlet Crusade (particularly via retcons) actually breaks the worldbuilding.
+I won't beat around the bush: Blizzard fucked up the writing of the Crusade. Originally, I thought it was bad, but not that bad...I've changed my mind. The Scarlet Crusade (particularly via retcons) actually breaks the world-building.
-I realized halfway thru writing this that...I'm mostly pointing out the worldbuilding issue instead of describing the canon stuff. I'll maybe fix it later.
+I realized halfway thru writing this that...I'm mostly pointing out the world-building issue instead of describing the canon stuff. I'll maybe fix it later.
-So to elaborate on the context again: the Scarlet Crusade was founded by the remnants of the Kingdom of Lordaeron. The Kingdom of Lordaeron was destroyed by Arthas after the latter joined the Scourge. So the Scourge destroyed the Kingdom, killing thousands of innocents in the process. They then also destroyed the Kingdom of Quel'thalas.\\
+So to elaborate on the context again: the Scarlet Crusade was founded by the remnants of the Kingdom of Lordaeron. The Kingdom of Lordaeron was destroyed by [[lb:wc:Arthas]] after the latter joined the [[lb:wc:Scourge]]. So the Scourge destroyed the Kingdom, killing thousands of innocents in the process. They then also destroyed the Kingdom of [[lb:wc:Quel'thalas]].\\
-Following this, the survivors scrambled together into the Alliance. The forces in the North were led by Lord Garithos. Garithos ended up alienating the Blood Elves((:fn:>And depending on who you ask and what retcons you believe, this was either a small percentage of the High Elves, or all of them.\\ So...a minority of the Blood Elves, but still a chunk of the army.)) and, realizing his mistake later, he actually changed his mind on non-humans. This ended up biting him back, though after Sylvanas betrays him.\\
+Following this, the survivors scrambled together into the Alliance. The forces in the North were led by Lord Garithos. Garithos ended up alienating the Blood Elves((:fn:>And depending on who you ask and what retcons you believe, this was either a small percentage of the High Elves, or all of them.\\ So...a minority of the [[lb:wc:Blood Elves]], but still a chunk of the army.)) and, realizing his mistake later, he actually changed his mind on non-humans. This ended up biting him back, though after Sylvanas betrays him.\\
 The newly-formed Forsaken (Scourge undead who broke away from the Scourge) decided to //stay// in Lordaeron and, after killing Garithos, presumably destroyed a big chunk of the Alliance in the former lands of Lordaeron.\\
 After the initial chaos, the remnants of the Alliance in Lordaeron reformed into the Scarlet Crusade. So, keep in mind, at this point most members of the Scarlet Crusade are former Paladins, soldiers and civilians.
@@ Line 18: / Line 18: @@
 Now, pre-retcon, the Scarlet Crusade was...still fanatically devoted to the destruction of the Forsaken. But they didn't mind other races (though they were suspicious of all outsiders). They also may or may not have been aligned with the Alliance. Also, at some point, the leadership of the Scarlet Crusade was infiltrated by a demon.\\
-Post-retcon,((:fn:>This came from the Ashbringer comic.)) the Scarlet Crusade was explicitly founded by someone possessed by a demon. They actively killed every non-human they saw and leaned hard on their Light identity. That retcon also required another retcon related to the Light, which was //stupid//.
+Post-retcon,((:fn:>This came from the Ashbringer comic.)) the Scarlet Crusade was explicitly founded by someone possessed by a demon. They actively killed every non-human they saw and leaned hard on their Light identity.((:fn:>Something else to point out: in the Monster Guide of the WarCraft RPG, it's stated that the Blood Elves “aren't evil, they just choose to fight fire with fire”. For context: Blood Elves use demonic magic and drink demon blood to sate their magic addiction.)) That retcon also required another retcon related to the Light, which was //stupid//.
 What's notable though is that both of these characterizations are still completely reasonable. Of course they're suspicious of non-humans: their former leader was suspicious of non-humans and when he lowered that suspicion, he was immediately betrayed.\\
 But, the big thing that Blizzard misses about the Scarlet Crusade is that it's //made up of the survivors of Lordaeron//. And that //seriously// changes the equation.
-This is where we bring up the other thing, which is what breaks the worldbuilding: the Alliance, for some reason, doesn't like the Scarlet Crusade. The justification(s) given are “racism” and “fanaticism”. But...let's think about this from a different angle: why isn't the //rest of the Alliance// **not** racist and fanatical?\\
+This is where we bring up the other thing, which is what breaks the world-building: the Alliance, for some reason, doesn't like the Scarlet Crusade. The justification(s) given are “racism” and “fanaticism”. But...let's think about this from a different angle: why isn't the //rest of the Alliance// **not** racist and fanatical?\\
 Why would I suggest that? Because:
   - The Alliance at this point is led by Stormwind. Stormwind's capital was destroyed by the Horde, like how Lordaeron's entire Kingdom was destroyed by Undead.
   - Theramore (the other major Alliance faction) is made up of survivors from Lordaeron, Dalaran and other Alliance kingdoms.
-  - The High Elves of Quel'thalas are still around.
+  - The [[lb:wc:High Elves]] of [[lb:wc:Quel'thalas]] are still around.
 Now, considering that, wouldn't Stormwind sympathize with the survivors of Lordaeron? Wouldn't the people of Theramore be interested in what their kin (possibly their actual family members) are doing in Lordaeron?\\
 Remember that the Alliance was founded **by Lordaeron** and they've now been **destroyed by Undead**. And the Undead currently there //did// rebel against the Scourge, but then they destroyed a **chunk of the Alliance in Lordaeron**...then joined **The Horde** and are currently harassing the remnants of the people of Lordaeron.\\
@@ Line 40: / Line 40: @@
 Also also! The Undead canonically have a natural hatred of the living and the Scourge and Forsaken both attempted to exterminate all life, so that //further// justifies the Scarlet Crusade's fanaticism.
+==== Warcraft RPG classes ====
+=== Inquisitor ===
+Apparently, and I need to check this, but the class isn't effective at fighting Undead. While this could be seen in many ways, the important point I want to make is this: if they aren't good at fighting the undead, why is the Scarlet Crusade so effective against them?
 ===== Writing Notes =====
 This is where I compile my notes on what I think should have happened with the Scarlet Crusade instead.
@@ Line 56: / Line 58: @@
 Keep in mind that as a citizen of the Kingdom of Lordaeron, you would have witnessed the destruction of your home, the deaths of all your loved ones and then you'd see those same loved ones being raised into undeath to kill you and everyone else that's left. Then you're abandoned by the rest of the world. Yeah, I think I can understand why the Scarlet Crusade is so popular among the people of Lordaeron.
-Obviously, I'd have them eventually win the war. The Forsaken have so much going against them as well.
+Obviously, I'd have them eventually win the war. The Forsaken have so much going against them as well.((:fn:>To be clear, I don't think that the Forsaken would have been accepted into the Horde in the first place. There is just no way that would be happening unless something completely insane happened.))((:fn:>Not being in the Horde is the //first// issue. Even assuming that they //do// join the Horde, they are still surrounded on all sides by enemies: the North has the remnants of the Kingdom of Quel'thalas which is either majority High Elf or majority Blood Elf. The East has the Argent Dawn and other survivors of Lordaeron. Sprinkled thruout the East and the entire country is the Scarlet Crusade. To the South is Gilneas. To the South-East you have the remnants of Dalaran, Stromgarde and the Syndicate. None of these would be friendly towards the Forsaken. If anyone with a brain were on the writing team at Blizzard, this would have been noticed.))
-===== Warcraft RPG classes =====
-==== Inquisitor ====
-Apparently, and I need to check this, but the class isn't effective at fighting Undead. While this could be seen in many ways, the important point I want to make is this: if they aren't good at fighting the undead, why is the Scarlet Crusade so effective against them?
 ===== Trivilinks =====
   * [[woww>Scarlet Crusade]]
   * [[you>v=DHNa7PJv4KU|Was the Scarlet Crusade Right?]] (yes)
     * According to that video, the Scarlet Crusade was originally where the Argent Dawn came from, which means some...interesting things.