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--- lb:wnotes:vampires [2025-09-26 09:31:00] – [Table] ninjasr
+++ lb:wnotes:vampires [2025-10-20 16:27:43] (current) – [Non-Human Blood] ninjasr
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 So that's kind of what my notes are about. Assuming a generic vampire...well, what //would// generic vampires //actually// look like in real life?
 {{tag>worldbuilding}}
+===== General Worldbuilding =====
+This section contains notes that should apply generally in all situations.
+==== Secrecy? ====
+Thru a discussion with a friend, I realized it's probably of the utmost importance to think this aspect of vampires thru: would they //want// to maintain secrecy?
+Especially for the Contemporary Fantasy worldbuilding, I assume that they //do// want to maintain secrecy, though it was pointed out to me that based on how vague I made vampires out, it's just as likely they'd place themselves on top of human hierarchies.
+So this section exists to weigh whether or not vampires would want to maintain secrecy or not.
+I think the following conditions dictate whether or not they want to stay hidden from humanity:
+  * What abilities they possess and how powerful they are.
+  * When they appear.
+  * How much blood they need to survive.
+  * Their weaknesses.
+But I think that, in general, vampires would lean towards hiding from humans unless the conditions are especially favorable to them. Whether it's our world or not (though if it's based in our world, they should remain secret if you want things to still line up).\\
+Let's go down the list one by one.
+==== Abilities ====
+What abilities vampires have is something that I generally consider to be unimportant. I say this because the abilities of the average vampire make them exceptionally weak compared to the entirety of humanity. But if vampiric abilities are downright god-like...yeah, the situation changes a bit. Though in that situation I find it most likely for vampires to go extinct together with the rest of humanity (assuming they start out early). I'm defining “god-like” as having no serious drawbacks.\\
+It also depends on what those abilities are. Turning invisible is beneficial, but is it more beneficial than mind-control? What about blood magic? And so on and so forth.\\
+I generally assume that vampires are immortal and possibly stronger than humans, but otherwise leave abilities out because there are too many to possibly speculate about.\\
+However, if you consider god-like mind-control (for example), where a single vampire can control the minds of thousands at once...then secrecy has no reason to be maintained at all and the world is just a chess board where millions of humans are constantly fighting millions of other humans because two vampires don't like each-other. But assuming any reasonable limitations (like the more you control the greater strain you're under, so you can only realistically control like 5)...then the situation shifts very much in humanity's favor. Thus, vampires maintain secrecy.\\
+Even god-like abilities don't guarantee vampire supremacy, since all it takes is one person getting lucky to kill a god.
+==== When ====
+When vampires appear is something that I talk about in [[#Origins]], though the general rule is that the earlier they appeared the smaller the incentive to remain hidden. For example, if they appear in the Bronze Age it's very likely that they'd just become the rulers of the Bronze Age civilizations.\\
+However, and this is key: as time goes on, the incentive to hide grows. Even if they started out as ruling openly, they'd eventually go into hiding due to various factors. This includes the explosion of the human population, technological developments and the spread of new ideas. The Enlightenment (significantly divorced from the Bronze Age aside) could conclude that vampires are bad and should be eliminated, for example.\\
+I think this rule also applies in Fantasy/Other worlds.
+==== How much Blood? ====
+How much blood they need to survive I talk about in the Vampire:Human Ratio. The general rule is that the more (human) blood vampires need to survive, the smaller the vampire population can be. If the vampire population is too small, they will be outnumbered by humans and are consequently in a lot of danger.\\
+The situation does change slightly if they don't need to drink human blood specifically. I feel that, in general, vampires //can// drink non-human blood, but it isn't as filling or nutritious, making it undesirable. More could be speculated on that front, but if non-human blood is just as good as human blood, vampires have a much smaller incentive to remain hidden.
+==== Weaknesses ====
+What harms vampires also significantly changes the situation. Though I did list it, I'm not actually sure how much this affects anything now that I think about it. I think that it depends on how common their weakness is and how deadly it is.\\
+IE: does the Sun kill them or weaken them?
+==== Vampire:Human Ratio ====
+It was pointed out to me that I was assuming that vampires are fewer in number than humans...but that I never explained why I assumed this, so this section exists to point that out.
+The ratio of vampires to humans is primarily determined by how much (human) blood vampires need to drink. This obviously also includes how often they need to drink blood.
+For a basic estimate, let's assume that a vampire needs to drink 1 pint (≈0.5L) of blood a month. From what I could find, the average human requires 8 weeks to recover that amount of blood after donating.((:ref:red-cross>[[https://www.redcrossblood.org/faq.html|Questions About Donating Blood | Red Cross Blood Services]])) Assuming 1 month = 4 weeks, a vampire needs a minimum of two other humans around to prevent causing significant harm to humans.\\
+If we increase the blood requirement to 2 pints, we're now looking at 4 people. And so on and so forth.
+Leaning on //[[lb:wod|Vampire: the Masquerade]]//, the average 8th Generation vampire has a blood pool of 15 points (the player has that many in //[[lb:wod:bloodlines|Bloodlines]]//). A blood pack provides 3 points, meaning a vampire who is starving requires 5 blood packs to get a full belly. That's a significant amount.
+The number of vampires further decreases if using their abilities (assuming they have any) requires blood.
+=== Non-Human Blood ===
+Vampires being able to drink non-human blood does change the situation significantly. In Neflix’s //Castlevania// (bad, I know), Dracula wants to make humanity extinct. This plan makes sense because it's stated once that vampires can drink animal blood. It would make a little less sense if humans couldn't drink animal blood.
+So how does this affect the vampire:human ratio? I'm not sure, though I think it changes the situation a bit.
+I'd actually generally consider this a worldbuilding fuckup, since there then has to be a reason why vampires seek human blood specifically. Castlevania doesn't actually explain why they need it.\\
+Generally, if vampires don't need to drink from humans...then they are basically just regular people who don't die, only go out at night and otherwise don't do much. That isn't exactly “terrifying predator of the night”. There's no good reason for them to hunt humans.
+//Dracula//((:fn:>Though I realized just now that I'm not sure if Dracula can drink non-human blood. Whether or not he can, I think the //Dracula// example makes sense here.)) and //[[lb:wod|Masquerade]]// get around this with the idea of “the hunger” – which isn't a term specific to those two, it's just to explain what's up.\\
+Vampires need to drink human blood because they have an eternal compulsion to do so. They can drink animal blood, but it doesn't get rid of the hunger in the same way that human blood does. Or if they spot someone bleeding, they get compelled to have a drink. And so on.
+The other solution is to have animal blood function a bit like sea water. Generally, you shouldn't drink sea water because it actually ends up making you thirstier. In vampire mechanics, this could manifest as “animal blood sates your hunger temporarily, but then makes you hungrier later”. I don't think anybody came up with this specifically though.
+The obvious solution is that vampires need to drink human blood or only a small subset can drink non-human blood. //[[lb:cod|Requiem]]// and //Masquerade// actually do this as well (kinda), where the more powerful of a vampire you are, the more you'll need to drink human (or later, vampire) blood. At a certain level in //Requiem//, you can //only// drink from other vampires.\\
+I think this is the most reasonable one.
+==== Human Juices ====
+Before I //finally// go thru //Medusa's Gaze and Vampire's Bite// again to double-check, I just need to put this here.
+Vampires – **originally** – didn't just drink blood. I believe that was explicitly established by Dracula. **Originally**, vampires drank/ate many other types of liquids that came from humans.\\
+The only condition seemed to be that it carry some kind of ‘life force’ from humanity.
+You know where this is going, **I** know where this is going...so let's just say it: <fs xx-large>**semen**</fs>.
+Vampires could originally not only drink blood, but semen and sweat and anything else that possibly comes out of a human. Does that include urine? That one is //possible// but I would actually say ‘no’ because it doesn't carry life force. Vaginal lubrication? Probably.
+So, yes, in order to feed herself a sexy vampire waifu could bite you, lick your face and then suck you o– **yeah**.
+Now that I've handled that topic, how does this fit into worldbuilding as a whole? Does it? Well, if vampires can drink more than blood, the situation regarding them changes quite a bit. To the point that it's quite complicated and difficult to theorize about.\\
+Thus, I think it's smarter to just stick to blood. If other ‘human juice’ is considered, it should not be nearly as filling. This is because sweat and...//sexual juices// are a lot easier to come by than blood.
 ===== Contemporary Fantasy Worldbuilding =====
 These aren't sorted alphabetically...but, I //hope// in an order where later entries are dependent on earlier ones.
-In general, I'm working from the following assumptions: they need to drink human blood((:fn:>I was reminded that some settings allow vampires to drink //any// blood to survive, I'll mention that a few times too.)) to survive; avoiding the sun is a must;((:fn:>Though not necessarily fatal.)) they prefer to remain secret from humanity as a whole;((:fn:>So basically the Masquerade, though what the rules //are// can vary.)) a vampire has to consciously turn you //into// a vampire via a bite.((:fn:>This means it //can’t// or //usually doesn't// happen by accident.\\ Alternatives to bites include it being a disease or them reproducing naturally, in which case they're just elves who bite.))
+In general, I'm working from the following assumptions: they need to drink human blood((:fn:>I was reminded that some settings allow vampires to drink //any// blood to survive, I'll mention that a few times too.)) to survive; avoiding the sun is a must;((:fn:>Though not necessarily fatal.)) they prefer to remain secret from humanity as a whole;((:fn:>So basically the Masquerade, though what the rules //are// can vary.)) a vampire has to consciously turn you into a vampire via a bite.((:fn:>This means it //can’t// or //usually doesn't// happen by accident.\\ Alternatives to bites include it being a disease or them reproducing naturally, in which case they're just elves who bite.))
 These are also focused on an //Contemporary Fantasy// setting, rather than on vampires in general...but I //do// think that a lot of it is still universally applicable.
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 Whether vampires see themselves as good or bad is something that can’t be concretely speculated about, though I'm leaning towards them viewing themselves as requiring salvation...so, they'd think of themselves as //not evil// but //not great either//. Probably lower (morally) than humans.\\
-I'd place “we are angels” as among the more popular fringe theories – under which I'm also placing the belief that vampires are meant to protect humanity.\\
+I'd place <q>“we are angels”</q> as among the more popular fringe theories – under which I'm also placing the belief that vampires are meant to protect humanity.\\
 The less popular beliefs would be tied to Satanism and whatever //Vampire: the Requiem// came up with for the **Lancea et Sanctum**.
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 == Age ==
 The long ages of vampires would be the biggest reason they'd prioritize these systems: they are very old. And what was considered progressive in the past would probably be considered conservative or reactionary in the present.\\
-And, instead of assuming they'd become //more// progressive over time, it's more likely they'd become //less// progressive and //more conservative//. This is down to the fact they would literally see the world they grew up in disappear as time goes on, which would make them very nostalgic for the “good old days”...at best. At worst, they'd think that the world ended.
+And, instead of assuming they'd become //more// progressive over time, it's more likely they'd become //less// progressive and //more conservative//. This is down to the fact they would literally see the world they grew up in disappear as time goes on, which would make them very nostalgic for the <q>“good old days”</q>...at best. At worst, they'd think that the world ended.
 </WRAP>
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 You probably wouldn't even see modern democracies as true democracies.
-Now remember that there are hundreds of perspectives on things that you could have, and you can quickly see how a vampire might become uber-conservative after hundreds of years of life.((:fn:>For a potentially funny example...would 19th Century Suffragettes still support the position that women should vote if they saw it lead to the Sexual Revolution?\\ These are the kinds of questions that you'd have to ask when considering what vampires believe.))
+Now remember that there are hundreds of perspectives on things that you could have, and you can quickly see how a vampire might become uber-conservative after hundreds of years of life.((:fn:>For a potentially funny example...would 19th Century Suffragettes still support the position that women should vote if they saw it led to the Sexual Revolution?\\ These are the kinds of questions that you'd have to ask when considering what vampires believe.))
 Arguing with an old vampire would be annoying at best and frustrating at worst, because they could pull out literally every historical counter-example that exists. They can point out that for most of history, most states were monarchies and monarchies, on average, last longer than democracies and so on...and so forth...
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 Now, it could be argued that while this may apply to existing cities, it doesn't necessarily apply to newly-formed cities or cities where the older vampires have less influence. Couldn't these have more cutthroat politics? Well, yes, but not for long.\\
 This is because in a cycle of backstabbing you eventually run out of people to backstab. Because you've either been backstabbed yourself, or you're the last person left.\\
-Any unstable vampiric states that exist would eventually reach the state of equilibrium that is stability...so, even if they don't start out as highly hierarchical, they'll probably end up there...because //“it just works™”//.
+Any unstable vampiric states that exist would eventually reach the state of equilibrium that is stability...so, even if they don't start out as highly hierarchical, they'll probably end up there...because <q>//“it just works™”//</q>.
 </WRAP>
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 This worldbuilding note is focused around blood and depends heavily on //how// the vampires drink blood, alongside the related conditions.\\
 In //Masquerade// and //Requiem//, for example, getting bit actually feels //really// good for the vampire and the person getting slurped...while in //Abraham Lincoln Vampire: Hunter//, the bite is always fatal.\\
-These two separate extremes radically change a lot about vampires...though once you reach modernity with blood bags and refrigarators, you don't have to worry quite as much.\\
+These two separate extremes radically change a lot about vampires...though once you reach modernity with blood bags and refrigerators, you don't have to worry quite as much.\\
 I mostly assume that the bite is non-painful and non-lethal.
 In general, vampires would prefer to acquire blood thru blood banks (which they would own)...because it just makes sense.\\
-Obviously, the blood banks would fulfill their surface-level function...but they'd also discreetly get rid of blood that “goes bad” or “gets contaminated”, which they'd send to their settlements. Though this assumes they //can// drink blood outside of biting someone.\\
+Obviously, the blood banks would fulfill their surface-level function...but they'd also discreetly get rid of blood that <q>“goes bad”</q> or <q>“gets contaminated”</q>, which they'd send to their settlements. Though this assumes they //can// drink blood outside of biting someone.\\
 Besides that, the main possibility is that vampires have mortals they can rely on. Who those mortals are can vary, though I think that for the sake of secrecy (and moral principle if that's factored in) vampires would avoid anything too morally dubious.\\
 They could simply kidnap undesirables from society, but they might object on the grounds that they don't want to drink the impure blood of criminals.
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 I think there's a very high chance that vampires are racist. Though probably not in the way that you'd expect.
-For historical reasons, they wouldn't like black Africans. Most vampires would (probably) be concentrated around North Africa, the Mediterranean and Europe...and these regions historically didn't really like black Africans.((:fn:>They //did// enslave them after all.)) Every other group – besides maybe Native Americans like Lindias – is more ambiguous.\\
+For historical reasons, they wouldn't like black Africans. Most vampires would (probably) be concentrated around North Africa, the Mediterranean and Europe...and these regions historically didn't really like black Africans.((:fn:>They //did// enslave them after all.)) Every other group – besides maybe Native Americans like Indians – is more ambiguous.\\
 Whether they're racist towards a particular group or not is highly dependent on where the vampires are from. So, for example, European vampires are likely to be racist towards Arabs, Indians, blacks and Asians (that last one is an if)...they're unlikely to be racist towards Middle-Eastern Vampires or other European groups.
 I thought about this a lot more than I'm willing to admit and what I concluded was the above: besides them being racist against blacks, basically nothing else is guaranteed.
-And if we consider historical context...it's likely vampires would get gradually //more// racist over time, instead of //less//. Remember how they've witnessed a lot thruout history? Well, imagine witnessed every barbarian invasion thruout history, then the effects of colonialism, then the effects of mass migration (in more modern times) alongside anything else I can’t immediately think of.\\
+And if we consider historical context...it's likely vampires would get gradually //more// racist over time, instead of //less//. Remember how they've witnessed a lot thruout history? Well, imagine witnessing every barbarian invasion thruout history, then the effects of colonialism, then the effects of mass migration (in more modern times) alongside anything else I can’t immediately think of.\\
 It would be very difficult to convince an old sexy vampress that being racist is wrong when she witnessed the Islamic Invasions, Mongol Invasions, the Haitian Revolution, the decolonization of Mozambique, the rise of Zimbabwe, the fall of Apartheid, both Congo Wars and the Rwandan Genocide.
 </WRAP>
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 </WRAP>
 ===== Miscellaneous Worldbuilding =====
+==== Affection & Intimacy ====
+While it's difficult to speculate exactly how vampires would express affection and be intimate, there are a few things I'd like to mention.
+Drinking each-other's blood is fairly obvious, but I don't think that would apply in 100% of situations.
+What I //do// think would apply is...//nibbling//. Specifically, the act of a vampire gently nibbling on another person's neck. Or wrist. Mainly the neck. This would apply for vampires and humans.\\
+I think this is a fairly obvious (and universal) way that vampires would show affection, because it signals that they //could// bite but are explicitly choosing //not to//.
+==== Bats ====
+Vampire bats only live in the New World, so tying their origins to vampires makes no sense if they originate in the Old World.
+The connection between vampires and bats was made after Europeans discovered vampire bats and, prior to that, there was no association between the two.
+I'm sure I can write something else about this if it comes to mind.
+==== Dracula ====
+I was gonna write something here, but then I realized it would fit better on a [[lb:Dracula|dedicated article]].
+Once I get the motivation to do so, I'll add how Dracula might fit into the picture.
+Oh, right, I remember what it was. I was discussing Dracula just the other day and it was suggested (not by me) that the canine teeth might have come from the //werewolf// side of Dracula, rather than the //vampire// side. That is kinda interesting to think about, though it probably doesn't matter that much.
 ==== Moonbathing ====
 Since the Moon reflects the Sun, it's possible that vampires might feel some kind of warmth (or get a tan) from the Moon. In that case, Moonbathing is totally a thing that could happen.
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 Imagine if a specific vampire ‘clan’ were pre-disposed to instability in some way – like they naturally have a higher libido or they're all kleptomaniacs – this would incentivize the other clans to simply get rid of them. Remember that they're also likely to be uber-racist. Even my suggestion of ‘pre-disposed to instability’ wouldn't be required...just //knowing they aren't the same species// would be.
+==== Support Networks ====
+I think it's likely that, assuming the contemporary fantasy worldbuilding stuff holds...that cities would run support networks outside of cities within their 'territory' where they'd make sure that any new vampires (or vampires who don't want to live in a city) are taken care of.
+This could involve regular supplies of blood, pamphlets, bureaucratic nonsense and who knows what. I think it's possible for a mild-mannered vampire bureaucrat to just appear at your doorstep the day after you became a vampire with a <q>"Hello! You must be new to this, but I'm here to help you get used to all of it."</q>
 ==== Temporal Hours ====
 Vampires have an interest in using unequal (temporal) hours. Why?\\
 Because temporal hours are defined as 12 day hours and 12 night hours. Normally, the times when night ends vary by day because the positions of the Sun and Moon vary day-to-day and depending on the Season. On the other hand, temporal hours are always based around when the day/night ends. This makes them //extremely useful// for vampires. Though the only real issue is that the length of an hour varies, at least you can keep track of exactly when the sun comes up.