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lb:wnotes:vampires [2026-02-08 11:47:07] – [Writing Notes for Vampires] ninjasrlb:wnotes:vampires [2026-04-02 02:03:20] (current) – [Other Views] ninjasr
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 ====== Writing Notes for Vampires ====== ====== Writing Notes for Vampires ======
-This article collects a number of notes on writing/worldbuilding [[lb:vampires]] (focused primarily on a contemporary fantasy setting). I spun it off from the original article due to how complicated it ended up getting.+<div subtitle> 
 +{{tag>worldbuilding}} 
 +</div> 
 +This article collects a number of notes on writing/world-building [[lb:vampires]] (focused primarily on a contemporary fantasy setting). I spun it off from the original article due to how complicated it ended up getting.
  
 <div passage> <div passage>
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 So that's kind of what my notes are about. Assuming a generic vampire...well, what //would// generic vampires //actually// look like in real life? So that's kind of what my notes are about. Assuming a generic vampire...well, what //would// generic vampires //actually// look like in real life?
 </div> </div>
-{{tag>worldbuilding}} 
 ===== General Worldbuilding ===== ===== General Worldbuilding =====
 This section contains notes that should apply generally in all situations. This section contains notes that should apply generally in all situations.
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 Thru a discussion with a friend, I realized it's probably of the utmost importance to think this aspect of vampires thru: would they //want// to maintain secrecy? Thru a discussion with a friend, I realized it's probably of the utmost importance to think this aspect of vampires thru: would they //want// to maintain secrecy?
  
-Especially for the Contemporary Fantasy worldbuilding, I assume that they //do// want to maintain secrecy, though it was pointed out to me that based on how vague I made vampires out, it's just as likely they'd place themselves on top of human hierarchies.+Especially for the [[#Contemporary Fantasy worldbuilding]], I assume that they //do// want to maintain secrecy, though it was pointed out to me that based on the vague description of vampires that I gave, it's just as likely they'd place themselves on top of human hierarchies.
  
 So this section exists to weigh whether or not vampires would want to maintain secrecy or not. So this section exists to weigh whether or not vampires would want to maintain secrecy or not.
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 </div> </div>
 ==== Abilities ==== ==== Abilities ====
-What abilities vampires have is something that I generally consider to be unimportant. I say this because the abilities of the average vampire make them exceptionally weak compared to the entirety of humanity. But if vampiric abilities are downright god-like...yeah, the situation changes a bit. Though in that situation I find it most likely for vampires to go extinct together with the rest of humanity (assuming they start out early). I'm defining “god-like” as having no serious drawbacks.\\ +<div passage> 
-It also depends on what those abilities are. Turning invisible is beneficial, but is it more beneficial than mind-control? What about blood magic? And so on and so forth.\\ +I generally consider the abilities that vampires have to be unimportant. This is because, when compared to the entirety of humanity, the abilities of the average vampire makes them exceptionally weak. But if vampiric abilities are downright god-like((:fn:>I'm defining <span denote>god-like</span> as having no serious drawbacks.))...yeah, the situation changes a bit. Though then I find it most likely for vampires to go extinct together with the rest of humanity (assuming they start out early). 
-I generally assume that vampires are immortal and possibly stronger than humans, but otherwise leave abilities out because there are too many to possibly speculate about.\\ + 
-However, if you consider god-like mind-control (for example), where a single vampire can control the minds of thousands at once...then secrecy has no reason to be maintained at all and the world is just a chess board where millions of humans are constantly fighting millions of other humans because two vampires don't like each-other. But assuming any reasonable limitations (like the more you control the greater strain you're under, so you can only realistically control like 5)...then the situation shifts very much in humanity's favor. Thus, vampires maintain secrecy.\\ +It also depends on what those abilities are. Turning invisible is beneficial, but is it more beneficial than mind-control? What about blood magic? And so on and so forth. 
-Even god-like abilities don't guarantee vampire supremacy, since all it takes is one person getting lucky to kill a god.+</div> 
 + 
 +<div passage> 
 +However, if we consider god-like mind-control to allow a single vampire to control the minds of thousands at once...then secrecy is not something vampires would care about...and the world is just a chess board where millions of humans are constantly fighting other millions because two vampires don't like each-other. 
 + 
 +But assuming any reasonable limitations((:fn:>Like the more you control the greater strain you're under, so you can only realistically control like 5.))...then the situation shifts very much in humanity's favor. Thus: vampires maintain secrecy. 
 + 
 +Even god-like abilities don't guarantee vampire supremacy though, since all it takes is one person getting lucky to kill a god. 
 +</div> 
 + 
 +//Generally//, I assume that vampires are immortal and stronger than humans. Otherwise, I leave abilities out of my assumptions because there are so many possible vampire abilities.
 ==== When ==== ==== When ====
-When vampires appear is something that I talk about in [[#Origins]], though the general rule is that the earlier they appeared the smaller the incentive to remain hidden. For example, if they appear in the Bronze Age it's very likely that they'd just become the rulers of the Bronze Age civilizations.\\ +<div passage> 
-However, and this is key: as time goes on, the incentive to hide grows. Even if they started out as ruling openly, they'd eventually go into hiding due to various factors. This includes the explosion of the human population, technological developments and the spread of new ideas. The Enlightenment (significantly divorced from the Bronze Age aside) could conclude that vampires are bad and should be eliminated, for example.\\ +I talk about when vampires appear in [[#Origins]]. Though when it comes to secrecy, the general rule is that the earlier they appear, the smaller their incentive to remain hidden is. 
-I think this rule also applies in Fantasy/Other worlds.+ 
 +For example, if their origin is in the Bronze Age, it's very likely they'd simply establish themselves as the rulers of all the Bronze Age civilizations. 
 +</div> 
 + 
 +However, and this is key: as time goes on, the incentive to hide grows. 
 + 
 +<div passage> 
 +Even if they started out by ruling openly, they'd eventually go into hiding for various reasons. 
 + 
 +One of those reasons being the explosion(s) of the human population...another is technological development...and another the spread of new ideas. 
 + 
 +Although it's far removed from the Bronze Age, the Enlightenment is a good example. Humanity could easily conclude that vampires are bad, actually, and should be eliminated. 
 +</div> 
 + 
 +I think this general rule applies even in worlds that are not our own.
 ==== How much Blood? ==== ==== How much Blood? ====
-How much blood they need to survive I talk about in the Vampire:Human Ratio. The general rule is that the more (human) blood vampires need to survive, the smaller the vampire population can be. If the vampire population is too small, they will be outnumbered by humans and are consequently in a lot of danger.\\ +<div passage> 
-The situation does change slightly if they don't need to drink human blood specifically. I feel that, in general, vampires //can// drink non-human blood, but it isn't as filling or nutritious, making it undesirable. More could be speculated on that front, but if non-human blood is just as good as human blood, vampires have a much smaller incentive to remain hidden.+I talk about how much blood they'd need to survive in the [[#Vampire:Human Ratio]]. 
 + 
 +The general rule that applies is that the more (human) blood vampires need to survive, the smaller the overall vampire population can be. If the vampire population is too small, they //will// be outnumbered by humans. Consequently, they'd be in a lot of danger. 
 +</div> 
 + 
 +<div passage> 
 +The situation does change slightly if human blood isn't needed specifically. 
 + 
 +I personally just kinda assume that, in general, vampires //can// drink non-human blood, but it isn't as filling or nutritious. That would make it undesirable. 
 +</div> 
 + 
 +More could be speculated about on that front, but if non-human blood is just as good as human blood, vampires have a much smaller reason to remain hidden.
 ==== Weaknesses ==== ==== Weaknesses ====
-What harms vampires also significantly changes the situation. Though I did list it, I'm not actually sure how much this affects anything now that I think about it. I think that it depends on how common their weakness is and how deadly it is.\\ +What kind of weaknesses vampires have also significantly affect the situation...//is what I thought, until I thought about it, and realized I couldn't come up with anything concrete//. 
-IE: does the Sun kill them or weaken them?+ 
 +The general rule I'd follow is that it depends on how common their weaknesses are and how deadly those weaknesses are. 
 + 
 +So, like, does the Sun kill them or only weaken them?
 ==== Vampire:Human Ratio ==== ==== Vampire:Human Ratio ====
 It was pointed out to me that I was assuming that vampires are fewer in number than humans...but that I never explained why I assumed this, so this section exists to point that out. It was pointed out to me that I was assuming that vampires are fewer in number than humans...but that I never explained why I assumed this, so this section exists to point that out.
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 These are Mesopotamia, Egypt, the Indus Valley and China. These are Mesopotamia, Egypt, the Indus Valley and China.
  
-<WRAP group>+<div section columns-2>
  
-<WRAP half column>+<div column>
 == Mesopotamia & Egypt == == Mesopotamia & Egypt ==
 I find Mesopotamia and Egypt to be the most likely origin points as these are two of the oldest civilizations in the world. I also favor these origin points over all others. I find Mesopotamia and Egypt to be the most likely origin points as these are two of the oldest civilizations in the world. I also favor these origin points over all others.
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 Assuming vampires //do// start here, it can be assumed that they'd carry //things// from Mesopotamia and Egypt into the modern day. Maybe a preference for Egyptian aesthetics, or the use of odd terms descended from Akkadian. It could be anything, really. Though religious beliefs are the most likely – like how the Egyptians thought of the soul, for example. Assuming vampires //do// start here, it can be assumed that they'd carry //things// from Mesopotamia and Egypt into the modern day. Maybe a preference for Egyptian aesthetics, or the use of odd terms descended from Akkadian. It could be anything, really. Though religious beliefs are the most likely – like how the Egyptians thought of the soul, for example.
-</WRAP> +</div> 
-<WRAP half column>+<div column>
 == Indus Valley & China == == Indus Valley & China ==
 The Indus Valley Civilization was one of the //other// early civilizations, so I think they should be mentioned. I find this origin less likely because I generally get the impression that it was more isolated than Mesopotamia and Egypt were. This makes the spread outward less likely to me. The Indus Valley Civilization was one of the //other// early civilizations, so I think they should be mentioned. I find this origin less likely because I generally get the impression that it was more isolated than Mesopotamia and Egypt were. This makes the spread outward less likely to me.
  
 China is probably in the same ballpark. I think that the population would have been high enough to support vampires, but it was isolated enough that they wouldn't have spread much afterwards. China is probably in the same ballpark. I think that the population would have been high enough to support vampires, but it was isolated enough that they wouldn't have spread much afterwards.
 +</div>
 +<div column>
 == Other == == Other ==
 Other possibilities include Crete, Cyprus, Mycenaean Greece and the Americas. I think you could justify vampires appearing in all these locations, though the Mediterranean civilizations would be functionally quite similar to Egypt or Mesopotamia...as I think vampires would then quickly spread to those anyway, where they'd become dominant. Other possibilities include Crete, Cyprus, Mycenaean Greece and the Americas. I think you could justify vampires appearing in all these locations, though the Mediterranean civilizations would be functionally quite similar to Egypt or Mesopotamia...as I think vampires would then quickly spread to those anyway, where they'd become dominant.
  
 The Americas are the ultra exception here in that you could justify vampires (or a vampire-like species) appearing, but you would have difficulty justifying a spread from the Americas to the rest of the world. The Americas are the ultra exception here in that you could justify vampires (or a vampire-like species) appearing, but you would have difficulty justifying a spread from the Americas to the rest of the world.
-</WRAP> +</div> 
-</WRAP>+</div>
 === Classical Era === === Classical Era ===
 This refers to a post Bronze Age origin of the vampires. This one is favored by...//[[lb:cod|Vampire: the Requiem]]//, again. //Requiem// puts a lot of emphasis on Rome and ties the origin of the Masquerade to Rome. Though outside of that, I won't mention it further. This refers to a post Bronze Age origin of the vampires. This one is favored by...//[[lb:cod|Vampire: the Requiem]]//, again. //Requiem// puts a lot of emphasis on Rome and ties the origin of the Masquerade to Rome. Though outside of that, I won't mention it further.
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 What this means is that republics, democracies and other modern(ish) political systems will be virtually non-existent, while very hierarchical systems like monarchies, aristocracies and theocracies would be dominant.\\ What this means is that republics, democracies and other modern(ish) political systems will be virtually non-existent, while very hierarchical systems like monarchies, aristocracies and theocracies would be dominant.\\
 Now, to be clear, ‘stability’ isn't the only deciding factor here. The others are age, influence from the old, historical awareness and burn-out. So let's go at them one by one. Now, to be clear, ‘stability’ isn't the only deciding factor here. The others are age, influence from the old, historical awareness and burn-out. So let's go at them one by one.
-<WRAP group>+<div section columns-2>
  
-<WRAP half column>+<div column>
 == Age == == Age ==
 The long ages of vampires would be the biggest reason they'd prioritize these systems: they are very old. And what was considered progressive in the past would probably be considered conservative or reactionary in the present.\\ The long ages of vampires would be the biggest reason they'd prioritize these systems: they are very old. And what was considered progressive in the past would probably be considered conservative or reactionary in the present.\\
 And, instead of assuming they'd become //more// progressive over time, it's more likely they'd become //less// progressive and //more conservative//. This is down to the fact they would literally see the world they grew up in disappear as time goes on, which would make them very nostalgic for the <q>“good old days”</q>...at best. At worst, they'd think that the world ended. And, instead of assuming they'd become //more// progressive over time, it's more likely they'd become //less// progressive and //more conservative//. This is down to the fact they would literally see the world they grew up in disappear as time goes on, which would make them very nostalgic for the <q>“good old days”</q>...at best. At worst, they'd think that the world ended.
  
-</WRAP> +</div> 
-<WRAP half column>+<div column>
 == Influence == == Influence ==
 Now that I've established that old vampires are likely to be very conservative (and become more so as time goes on)...well, now comes their influence thruout society. Now that I've established that old vampires are likely to be very conservative (and become more so as time goes on)...well, now comes their influence thruout society.
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 Besides passive influence, there could be (and probably would be) active influence in the form of education. I don't see why vampire cities wouldn't have teacher dedicated to helping new vampires, so they'd probably have them.\\ Besides passive influence, there could be (and probably would be) active influence in the form of education. I don't see why vampire cities wouldn't have teacher dedicated to helping new vampires, so they'd probably have them.\\
 And...well...just have these teachers spread the dominant political views among the new ones. Though this could //still// be unintentional, assuming that the most qualified vampire for the position is simply old. And...well...just have these teachers spread the dominant political views among the new ones. Though this could //still// be unintentional, assuming that the most qualified vampire for the position is simply old.
-</WRAP> +</div> 
- +<div column>
-</WRAP> +
-<WRAP group> +
- +
-<WRAP half column>+
 == Historical Awareness == == Historical Awareness ==
 This is the biggest reason that I believe vampires would be politically conservative. This is the biggest reason that I believe vampires would be politically conservative.
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 Arguing with an old vampire would be annoying at best and frustrating at worst, because they could pull out literally every historical counter-example that exists. They can point out that for most of history, most states were monarchies and monarchies, on average, last longer than democracies and so on...and so forth... Arguing with an old vampire would be annoying at best and frustrating at worst, because they could pull out literally every historical counter-example that exists. They can point out that for most of history, most states were monarchies and monarchies, on average, last longer than democracies and so on...and so forth...
-</WRAP> +</div> 
-<WRAP half column>+<div column>
 == Burn-Out == == Burn-Out ==
 The final important point to bring up here is the concept of burn-out. Basically, vampires that are ‘jittery’ and prone to mischief will not survive for long because they'll end up burning out. The final important point to bring up here is the concept of burn-out. Basically, vampires that are ‘jittery’ and prone to mischief will not survive for long because they'll end up burning out.
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 This is because in a cycle of backstabbing you eventually run out of people to backstab. Because you've either been backstabbed yourself, or you're the last person left.\\ This is because in a cycle of backstabbing you eventually run out of people to backstab. Because you've either been backstabbed yourself, or you're the last person left.\\
 Any unstable vampiric states that exist would eventually reach the state of equilibrium that is stability...so, even if they don't start out as highly hierarchical, they'll probably end up there...because <q>//“it just works™”//</q>. Any unstable vampiric states that exist would eventually reach the state of equilibrium that is stability...so, even if they don't start out as highly hierarchical, they'll probably end up there...because <q>//“it just works™”//</q>.
-</WRAP>+</div>
  
-</WRAP>+</div>
 ==== Economics ==== ==== Economics ====
 The dominant economic system among vampire society would doubtless be patronage. The dominant economic system among vampire society would doubtless be patronage.
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 ==== Other Views ==== ==== Other Views ====
 This is to include all the //other// views that vampires are likely to have. So, let's not delay and get into it. This is to include all the //other// views that vampires are likely to have. So, let's not delay and get into it.
-<WRAP group> +<div section columns-2> 
- +<div column>
-<WRAP half column>+
 === Racism === === Racism ===
 I think there's a very high chance that vampires are racist. Though probably not in the way that you'd expect. I think there's a very high chance that vampires are racist. Though probably not in the way that you'd expect.
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 And if we consider historical context...it's likely vampires would get gradually //more// racist over time, instead of //less//. Remember how they've witnessed a lot thruout history? Well, imagine witnessing every barbarian invasion thruout history, then the effects of colonialism, then the effects of mass migration (in more modern times) alongside anything else I can’t immediately think of.\\ And if we consider historical context...it's likely vampires would get gradually //more// racist over time, instead of //less//. Remember how they've witnessed a lot thruout history? Well, imagine witnessing every barbarian invasion thruout history, then the effects of colonialism, then the effects of mass migration (in more modern times) alongside anything else I can’t immediately think of.\\
 It would be very difficult to convince an old sexy vampress that being racist is wrong when she witnessed the Islamic Invasions, Mongol Invasions, the Haitian Revolution, the decolonization of Mozambique, the rise of Zimbabwe, the fall of Apartheid, both Congo Wars and the Rwandan Genocide. It would be very difficult to convince an old sexy vampress that being racist is wrong when she witnessed the Islamic Invasions, Mongol Invasions, the Haitian Revolution, the decolonization of Mozambique, the rise of Zimbabwe, the fall of Apartheid, both Congo Wars and the Rwandan Genocide.
-</WRAP> +</div> 
-<WRAP half column>+<div column>
 === Sexism === === Sexism ===
 If we strictly define sexism as any view that men and women are not equal...the majority of vampires would be sexist. But if we define it as seeing the other gender as subhuman, it's likely that the majority of vampires wouldn't be sexist.\\ If we strictly define sexism as any view that men and women are not equal...the majority of vampires would be sexist. But if we define it as seeing the other gender as subhuman, it's likely that the majority of vampires wouldn't be sexist.\\
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 So by very strict modern standards they'd be sexist, but otherwise they wouldn't be. So by very strict modern standards they'd be sexist, but otherwise they wouldn't be.
-</WRAP> +</div> 
- +<div column>
-</WRAP> +
-<WRAP group> +
- +
-<WRAP half column>+
 === Homophobia/Transphobia === === Homophobia/Transphobia ===
 This is an unambiguous case: vampires would probably be supremely homophobic and transphobic. This is an unambiguous case: vampires would probably be supremely homophobic and transphobic.
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 A question I did ask myself is whether vampires would be fine with crossdressing. And what I concluded is that it's inconclusive and would depend on the city or religious beliefs. I think that, in general, it would be frowned upon...but not as much as being transgender. A question I did ask myself is whether vampires would be fine with crossdressing. And what I concluded is that it's inconclusive and would depend on the city or religious beliefs. I think that, in general, it would be frowned upon...but not as much as being transgender.
-</WRAP> +</div> 
-<WRAP half column>+<div column>
 === Classism === === Classism ===
 Would vampires be classist and elitist? I’m leaning towards “probably not”.\\ Would vampires be classist and elitist? I’m leaning towards “probably not”.\\
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 Rather than classisim, though, vampires would be hierarchical and expect people to know their place in society. Rather than classisim, though, vampires would be hierarchical and expect people to know their place in society.
-</WRAP> +</div> 
- +<div column>
-</WRAP> +
-<WRAP group> +
- +
-<WRAP half column>+
 === Debauchery === === Debauchery ===
 I find it unlikely that vampires would be decadent or that they'd favor debauchery/indulging in pleasures. This is because, again, they've witnessed the literal ends of civilizations, so they prioritize stability.\\ I find it unlikely that vampires would be decadent or that they'd favor debauchery/indulging in pleasures. This is because, again, they've witnessed the literal ends of civilizations, so they prioritize stability.\\
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 This implies the possibility of the hilarious situation where a sexy vampire waifu actually doesn't like the idea of pre-marital sex because if the relationship breaks off, it could lead to jealousy down the line. This implies the possibility of the hilarious situation where a sexy vampire waifu actually doesn't like the idea of pre-marital sex because if the relationship breaks off, it could lead to jealousy down the line.
-</WRAP> +</div> 
-<WRAP half column>+<div column>
 === Slavery === === Slavery ===
 Slavery is ambiguous though the reasons why might be surprising. Slavery is ambiguous though the reasons why might be surprising.
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 Also! I completely forgot to mention blood bonds (//Masquerade/////Requiem// terminology)...or enslaving humans via...something or other. In //Masquerade// and //Requiem// you can enslave someone by making them drink your blood – this turns a regular human into a ghoul and a vampire into...your slave. This also appears in //Dracula// and seems to pop up in other things as well.\\ Also! I completely forgot to mention blood bonds (//Masquerade/////Requiem// terminology)...or enslaving humans via...something or other. In //Masquerade// and //Requiem// you can enslave someone by making them drink your blood – this turns a regular human into a ghoul and a vampire into...your slave. This also appears in //Dracula// and seems to pop up in other things as well.\\
 If this exists, then what vampires think of slavery changes significantly...as well as how they operate. So I'm briefly mentioning it here before I make bigger changes. If this exists, then what vampires think of slavery changes significantly...as well as how they operate. So I'm briefly mentioning it here before I make bigger changes.
-</WRAP> +</div> 
- +</div>
-</WRAP>+
 ===== Miscellaneous Worldbuilding ===== ===== Miscellaneous Worldbuilding =====
 ==== Affection & Intimacy ==== ==== Affection & Intimacy ====
lb/wnotes/vampires.1770551227.txt.gz · Last modified: 2026-02-08 11:47:07 by ninjasr
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