Differences

This shows you the differences between two versions of the page.

--- lb:zelda [2025-08-09 15:28:15] – [Trivilinks] ninjasr
+++ lb:zelda [2025-08-23 18:35:00] (current) – [Ocarina of Time] ninjasr
@@ Line 13: / Line 13: @@
 One thing I'm convinced of is that the timeline just...doesn't work. You can read about that in [[#Canon]].
-=== Manga ===
+==== Manga ====
 Because I'm always a little more interested in story, I ended up reading the manga adaptations of a lot of the games...and it's an //interesting// experience.
@@ Line 19: / Line 19: @@
 They generally showcase a Link who talks and has more of a backbone, which is kinda interesting.
+Considering I started to re-read the manga, I may have more to say soon (Ocarina of Time, added just now, is the first step here).
+=== Ocarina of Time ===
+I re-read this recently and, thus, comes this.
+The Ocarina of Time manga is split into two main arcs: Child and Adult. So, unlike in the game, Link doesn't go back and forth between time periods.\\
+And, of those, the Child Arc is better. Things just kinda...happen in the Adult Arc and we bounce between locations in an illogical manner. In the Child Arc, meanwhile, events usually connect to each-other. There's a logical cause and effect here.
+The sages thing is just...dumb, here. I dunno exactly what the issue is, but I thought it just wasn't great.
+The artwork is //very good// and the writing/dialog tends to be fine as well. Actually, Navi has an actual character (though it's not like I can compare directly) and, thus, she's actually kinda nice. You actually understand why Link likes her. The bonus story is pretty great too – especially in regards to Link and Navi.\\
+However, this has the inexplicable departure of Navi make a bit less sense here than in the game.((:fn:>Assuming my read on the game is correct, where Navi is a bit more aloof/robotic than in the manga, where she seems much warmer.)) Though we don't know why she left in the first place.
+Some changes, as compared to the game are: Link and Zelda clearly like each-other, which sorta adds to the tragedy of Link being sent back; Link talks and he talks a lot; the Deku shield was crafted from the Deku Tree instead of being bought; that's all I know for now, as I need to play the game first.
+But that Adult Arc made me remember why I thought it was kinda mediocre. I think that if the manga were longer (maybe 1.5 or 2x longer), it would have been vastly improved. Though that probably wasn't possible.
+=== Majora's Mask ===
+The manga this time is about the same quality as //Ocarina of Time//. Though I //believe// that it's shorter than the last one – which is relevant because the story does feel overly condensed as compared to //Ocarina of Time//.
+I don't have much to say beyond that, honestly. I might later if I remember anything.
+Oh, right. There was a bonus story which offers a very mythical origin for Majora's Mask. I believe it was created //before// the game came out which is probably why it's so light on details. I think it's interesting, but I wasn't particularly impressed.
+=== A Link to the Past ===
+I finished it and, honestly, I think this is the worst one so far. Actually, //Majora's Mask// (or perhaps //Ocarina of Time//) started a trend that will plague all the manga: they're too short.
+Generally, all of the manga would be improved by having more time in-between events. But since they're so short, they have to condense the story //a lot//. It just so happens that the manga this time around is //very obviously// condensed.
+There's plenty of stuff in here that //is// interesting, but the short length means that we never really explore it (like the main villain having a connection to Link and Link's parents being involved).
+Also, unlike with the Hero of Time, the Link this time around doesn't have an obvious romantic connection with Zelda. They //do// like each-other, but I get the impression Link doesn't really see the situation in that way. Which is fitting because bandit waifu.
 ==== The Phantom Hourglass ====
 This is the first //Zelda// game I played and was my introduction to it in general. As a kid I...didn't finish it and, to this day, it remains unfinished. Some action bits were too difficult for me.
@@ Line 64: / Line 94: @@
 Honestly, I don't mind this approach: I just wish that people didn't try to cram it all into one timeline. Or Nintendo attempting the same thing.
+==== How many Links are related to each-other? ====
+I'm making this section just to quickly jot down a thought I had: how many of the Links in Zelda are relatives?
+So far, I think that the only definitive connection is between the <abbr>Hero of Time [Ocarina of Time]</abbr> and the <abbr>Hero of Twilight [Twilight Princess]</abbr>...the latter being descended from the former.\\
+The Hero of Twilight may also be related to Zelda from Twilight Princess. Though this is speculative and you should read [[#whodidtheherooftimehavekidswith|the section below]].
+I think that, maybe, the <abbr>Hero of Hyrule [A Link to the Past]</abbr> is related to the Link from the first game, though that's a guess on my part.
+Oh, right: the Link from Spirit Tracks is definitely related to the <abbr>Hero of Winds [Wind Waker]</abbr> //and// Tetra. Which, yes, means that that Link is also related to Zelda.
+==== Hylian Language Project ====
+There was a fan-made Hylian language at some point, which I learned of from [[https://zelda.fandom.com/wiki/Community:Hylian_Language_Project|here]]. I'm mentioning it just because, though I wouldn't call it especially notable.
+If there's gonna be a Hylian Language Project, I'll just do it myself.
 ==== Is Link ‘Link’ and is he Green? ====
 This is an idea that I had at some point, but there's no evidence to suggest that Link is actually called Link in most games (as far as I know)...and, well, that's not that interesting. You name him, so obviously his name isn't Link. Sometimes.
@@ Line 70: / Line 113: @@
 There is little evidence to suggest this, so consider it a crack theory.
+=== Evil Hero & Donning the Hero's garb ===
+One aspect of the overall Legend that raises questions is why nobody really recognizes Link as a hero despite him looking like the Heroes of legend. I mean: he's wearing green clothes in basically every game and many of the games have those other games as backstories. Additionally, it //is// confirmed that there are other heroes outside of the games...so the green clothing should be a telltale sign that Link is a hero.
+Along that line of thinking...what if somebody dons the hero's green clothes because they //want// to be a hero or wish to be //perceived// as a hero...but then end up bad? This is just a natural twist you could apply to the story, though I doubt Nintendo would ever.
+==== Is the Triforce hereditary? ====
+An issue I may have identified has to do with the Triforce. There is //some// evidence to suggest that //some// characters end up gaining the Triforce due to being related to someone who previously earned it.\\
+I think that this applies to the Hero of Twilight (who inherits it from the Hero of Time, his ancestor) and Tetra (who inherits it from Ocarina!Zelda).
+This raises not-great questions surrounding the Triforce. I may elaborate later.
+==== The Prequel Problem ====
+I'm titling the section like this because it's catchy.
+An issue that the Zelda franchise suffers from is the frequency of prequels. There are //a lot// of prequels...in fact, let me list them:
+  * A Link to the Past (Prequel to Zeldas I & II)
+  * Ocarina of Time (Prequel to A Link to the Past)
+  * Oracle of Seasons & Oracle of Ages (Prequel to Link's Awakening)((:fn:>Something notable here is that, at some point, Link's Awakening was placed //after// the events of the Oracle games. This makes zero sense as those games end with Link departing by boat which is where he ends up at the start of Link's Awakening. This ‘new’ timeline order is the one presented on the Zelda Wiki. But note that the Hyrule Historia timeline (which you see everywhere) is the original (and correct) order.))
+  * The Minish Cap (Prequel to the whole series)
+  * Skyward Sword (Prequel to the whole series)
+While this doesn't seem like a big deal, there's a bit of a domino effect caused by so many prequels. One issue is that each prequel sorta kinda (but not always) positions itself as revealing some important truth relevant to the timeline/story as a whole (with the exception of the Oracle Games).\\
+I'm not actually sure about A Link to the Past, so let's just move on for now...\\
+Ocarina of Time attempts to explain where Link got his iconic green clothes (he grew up among the Kokiri in the forest ), how Ganondorf became a thing and...that's all I'm sure of for now.\\
+The Minish Cap explains where Link got his green hat and why the heroes following him have worn it since.\\
+Skyward Sword tries the same thing as Ocarina of Time, but taken to the extreme and tries to be the definitive prequel. It explains where //Zelda//, //Link// and //Ganon// come from and why the same events seem to happen over and over again. It explains the origin of Hyrule and the Master Sword.
+There are several issues with constantly doing prequels – one being diminishing returns as, at some point, the past becomes uninteresting when we //could// have been moving forward instead – but one aspect is that it raises questions about the worldbuilding. This is a point made by matthewmatosis in his Skyward Sword review, where he points out that it //can’t// be the ultimate definitive sequel for the simple fact Link is still exploring ancient ruins in that game. Somebody must have built those ruins before they were abandoned.\\
+This point applies to the series as a whole, too...like, who built the ruins and why are they now abandoned?\\
+At a certain point you'll end up going so far back in time that there's no way you can take the worldbuilding seriously...though I think that this stage had been hit with Skyward Sword. The Minish Cap is debatable.((:fn:>Which is something I say because I get the feeling it leans more into that “Different variations of the same legend” idea than other games. This is just a ‘vibe’ I get from it though. If we run with that legend assumption, The Minish Cap is almost like the type of myth/legend that exists to help explain all the other legends...just that we're seeing them explaining the hat instead of why there are multiple Links.))
+One other issue with these prequels is that they end up undermining each-other. Zelda II introduced ‘Zelda I’ as the explanation behind all the girls in the Hyrulean royal family being named ‘Zelda’. But thanks to...//every game set before Zelda II//...that explanation makes no sense. You could excuse it with Link to the Past (if the Zelda there //really// pre-dates Zelda I) as one of the few Zeldas prior...but there is functionally no difference between “Zelda is just a popular name in the royal family~” and “All the girls are legally to be named ‘Zelda’.”
+=== Any true sequels? ===
+Another issue that I noticed later – after counting the number of prequels among all the games and realizing that there aren't that many – is that there aren't a lot of sequels that are just...sequels.\\
+As in: most of the sequels are sequels to prequels, which has an interesting effect.
+So...I decided to count them.
+To be clear, I'm identifying a ‘true sequel’ as any sequel which isn't a sequel to a prequel...which means that games like //Twilight Princess// and //Wind Waker// are excluded since those are both sequels to //Ocarina of Time//.
+So, how many? There are two: //Zelda II// and //Breath of the Wild//.
+This may or may not be a problem depending on your perspective, but Zelda as a series is (or was, until Breath of the Wild) stuck in the past. Though I wouldn't say it's //that// big of an issue since, as I have established, I don't think canon really exists.
 ==== Repeating Legends ====
 This is another crack theory of sorts, but it's one which has a little more behind it (I hope).
@@ Line 75: / Line 158: @@
 Basically, what if each game is actually just an account of the same legend? Any differences between the accounts is explainable as geographic/chronological differences between each telling.\\
 This would explain why the same stuff seems to happen over and over again, while the details change.
 ==== Where did ‘Timeline Fever’ begin? ====
 Having started rewatching matthewmatosis’ review on Zelda (linked in Trivilinks), I started to wonder where exactly Nintendo decided that Zelda needed to consistently reference past games and maintain a strict continuity...well, ‘strict’.\\
@@ Line 80: / Line 164: @@
 So far, this is just a “thing I noticed” and I may expand on it in the future.
+==== Who did the Hero of Time have kids with? ====
+Twilight Princess suggests that the Hero of Twilight is the direct descendant of the Hero of Time. I'm noting quickly though that I'm not sure and I will either re-play the game or check some gameplay to make sure.\\
+Though I'm about 93% sure that these two Links are related.\\
+But this raises the question of who the Hero of Time bangs.
+My thinking (from what I know about the franchise) is that there are only two real options: Zelda and Malon. Of those, I used to lean towards Zelda...but I'm not sure anymore.
+There are different reasons for why Link is more likely to go one way or the other.
+In Zelda's case, I think there are a few things backing this up as the likely option:
+  * Zelda is one of only //3?// people who know that Link saved the world, granting her a unique connection with him.
+  * The manga adaptation suggests that Link only has eyes for Zelda (to the point Malon gives up before she even started).
+  * Link and Zelda have very clear romantic interests in each-other.
+  * The Hero of Time (or Cursed Swordsman or whoever) serves the Hyrulean Royal family as a knight, so they'd be in direct contact (presumably).
+Malon's case is a bit more complicated, since I'm relying on context that I don't currently have because I haven't played //Ocarina of Time//. So I'm extrapolating: matthewmatosis says in his //Ocarina of Time// video that Skyward Sword Zelda is the first Zelda who has an explicitly romantic connection between the two of them and his wording (which I'll find later) implies that previous games didn't have any explicit //or// implicit suggestion that they'd end up together.\\
+Now, I find that dubious if you include //all// the games, but he could mean within the review series he was doing (which means it includes //Ocarina//). So, based on that, the games might suggest that Link and Zelda have zero interest in each-other and, if that's the case, Malon is basically the guaranteed choice.\\
+Now that that's out of the way, here's the other stuff suggesting it:
+  * Malon is a normal girl. This is important because Link is basically a nobody when he goes back to the past.
+  * The manga implies that they like each-other.
+  * Though if the game suggests zero interest between Link/Zelda (the opposite of the manga), then Malon is guaranteed to be with Link.
+All of this is important to know because the Hero of Twilight, if he bangs Zelda, might be banging his cousin. Though in that specific case, I think it's heavily implied by the game that they don't really see each-other in that way. Which may or may not suggest they can tell they're related.
+==== Zelda Names ====
+Considering just how many Zeldas there are...I think that, realistically, girls in the Hyrulean royal family would start giving their daughters additional names to differentiate them from other Zeldas. Y'know, like how Mary-Jane is named Mary-Jane instead of just Mary.
+The closest the games ever seem to get to this is with Tetra...who is the only Zelda (that I'm aware of) who has a name besides Zelda. Though the question is: is that her first or second name? Or are they both first names? ‘Zelda Tetra’?\\
+Though I guess this is besides the point.
+The other issue here is that mothers (even Zelda XVI) would have specific names in mind for their daughters, right? Legally, they'd be forced to name their children ‘Zelda’...but what's stopping them from just adding another name? It would be the best of both worlds.
 ===== Trivilinks =====
   * [[https://zeldawiki.wiki/wiki/Main_Page|Zelda Wiki]]
@@ Line 86: / Line 204: @@
   * [[lb:matthewmatosis]]’ [[youp>PLdg60-UktzB7FOxFNrVBmNZN7jqhkQdIu|review series]].
   * From prior experience with the Zelda wikis, they make some...strange choices. The only one that I've noted, though which may not apply anymore, is with how they treat characters: every ‘Zelda’ is treated as a single character – combining all the versions into one article. The same for ‘Link’. This is an odd choice because, even if you subscribe to the idea that they're reincarnations, they are still distinctly different people.
-  * Though I'll note that that was the case when I last checked those wikis and the situation may have changed, so take it with a grain of salt.
+    * There's actually a bit of a rabbit-hole here, so I may end up writing a dedicated article for the Zeldadungeon.
   * As a side note, Twilight Princess' Link cannot be the same as Ocarina of Time's Link because they literally meet each-other...so Twilight Link can’t be a reincarnation.
   * The 1d6chan [[1d6>The Legend of Zelda|article]] says that there's an implication //Link to the Past// Link is Zelda's brother. What...?
   * I don't remember exactly //where// he said it, but matthewmatosis once said that he thinks Nintendo are better game designers than they are storytellers and...after looking at the stories of all the Zelda games, I think I have to agree with him. Though I may elaborate on my own thoughts later.
   * The banner on this page features ‘Zelda’ written in [[lb:zelda:Hylian]]. Though it mixes the scripts from //Link to the Past// and //The Wind Waker//.